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Sad Times (2nd Class City)

Old Boy

Old Boy

master brummie
Hi All,

I do not think that I am jumping the gun to suggest that Villa are about to be relegated. Although I am a Blues supporter I am not about to castigate Villa. After all what have we got to shout about? To stay up Villa must win their remaining 6 games and Norwich lose all theirs.

I do wish to point out that Birmingham is proud to call itself the second city. It is certainly not so in the football world. Manchester and Liverpool each have 2 teams in the top echelons of the Premiership. London has 3 such teams. Birmingham will have none. Supporters of foreign teams certainly will not be looking at their maps to find out where Birmingham is next season and probably for some time after that. In the football world at least the City of Birmingham is second rate. Second rate in football probably second rate in most other things will be in their minds.

I doubt if we will ever catch up. Villa might revive in a few years time and become a powerful team in the Premiership but I would not think it likely. Blues never have and probably never will be a side of any consequence.. Others may have different opinions.

Old Boy
 
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I have to agree with you about Brum being 2nd class as far as footie is concerned. living in durham I can`t comment about Brum being 2nd class in other things, but my memories of Brum are full of happy memories (mostly) especially of the 50`s & 60`s. I remember watching Villa when they had players like Paddy Mcparland & Stan Lynn. Happy days. I shall still follow Villa even if they have to play such teams as Accrington Stanley. Get rid of all these johnny foreigners & try & make up a team full of Brummies who will play their heart out.
 
Hi Smudger,

You are quite right. I do not suppose it worries you being a Brummie but the North East is not doing much better on the football field. Both Newcastle Utd and Sunderland look as though they will drop with Villa. However they do have Middlesboro' to put a smile on their faces and I reckon that Blyth Spartans would give our teams a run for their money these days. Take care.

Old Boy
 
There have been many occasions when I have said that, to succeed in football these days, you have to buy everything. The best players, the best coaches, the best grounds etcetera. However teams like Bournemouth and Leicester are proving that that is not necessarily the case.

Here in Norwich, they are just about surviving, and they have very little debt problems. Then again, the have a 'captive' audience. The nearest top class team is over 40 miles away (Ipswich).

Birmingham City have been run on a very tight budget since the owner was jailed, and given the current circumstances, are doing OK.

Aston Vila are tired in every department. Management, coaches and players. I recall the days, not so long back, when both the 'Blues' and the Villa were in the third tier of football. As indeed were Manchester United.

At the 'Baggies' Tony Pulis is a shrewd man and is just about managing to keep the Albion in the top layer. Wolves have problems. For the football fans in the Birmingham area, these are sad times.

Here we have four very famous old clubs, and yes, as far as football is concerned, Birmingham is second Class. Hopefully it will change.

Just a few years back all four of these teams were in the Premiership together. We can but hope.

Eddie
 
Old Boy said:
Hi All,

It is certainly not so in the football world. Manchester and Liverpool each have 2 teams in the top echelons of the Premiership. London has 3 such teams.
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Depending on how you define London, I would have said 4 or 5. On the other hand, Liverpool don't have a cricket team (they have to share with Manchester). To stay up Villa have to win 5 from 6 games but Swansea are now irrelevant - The next three are Norwich, Sunderland, and Newcastle although they have a vague hope of catching Crystal Palace if they win all of them.
 
To stay up Villa have to win 5 from 6 games but Swansea are now irrelevant - The next three are Norwich, Sunderland, and Newcastle

Wam,

You are right and I have now amended my post. However, Villa have 6 games left (a possible 18 points making a total of 34) Norwich have 31 points and a win would take them to 34. Norwichs goal difference is far superior to that of Villa so, in my book, Villa have to win all 6 games.

Old Boy
 
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I think dropping out of the premier is the least of villa's worries. They are losing £70,000 a day, yes thats right, a day. I think going into administration might be a serious threat. Upsetting Martin O'Neil was a big mistake, look at the results since and players moved on.
 
Birmingham always had great football teams, in "The Villa", and "The Blues, late 50's early 60's always out front, but then so were "Wolves", WBA, "The Baggy's, that great city of ours was always in the news as one of the best in the WORLD. Mind you I think Britain is diminished now to what she was, and my generation are greatly saddened by it.Paul
 
Yes old boy
Yes be prepared was the motto on our crest, and yes we have been rock bottom before on the lines
And sprung back into action and back in the bridge and back up
But yes that's when we had good players cream of a bunch of lads,and we did have good managers and coaches behind them
But sadly watching there performance the other night it was a complete wish out of a team
They was only half interested in playing and for the defences these want throwing out and replacing
But yes again old randy ain't interested in parting with cash just like old double plus it was bad goal keeping by our goalie
Its gonna cost 2 million to remove the wording be Prepared and redesign our logo
If they want to spend money do it on new players rebuild the team and do not insult us
We have a super ground the largest in the midlands spent money on improvements its a super bowl
That's why the F A bring world games to our pitch for its capacity
And I myself and other people like me and hardened villa fans find it insulting to change our crest
Best wishes Astonian,,,,,,
 
Astonian said:
Yes old boy

That's why the F A bring world games to our pitch for its capacity

Alan,

When was the last time a world game was played at Villa Park? By my reckoning it was 1996 when a couple of European games were played there.
Villa, as of course Blues, have allowed other clubs to overtake them by building super stadiums all with a capacity much larger than Villa. To name but a few - Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd, Sunderland, Derby County etc. West Ham are moving into the Olympic Stadium next season and Spurs and Everton are well forward with plans for a new stadium or increasing capacity at their present grounds.

Old Boy
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oldboy, I`m thinking of sending an email to all the Villa players, if they don`t win the remaining 6 games i shall confiscate their luxury cars & put them on £20 a week. Do you think that will work?
 
Was there not a plan afoot (no pun intended), some years ago, for a new football stadium to be built by the N.E.C?

If I recall it all correctly, the Blues would have had the new stadium, and Birmingham City Council would have been involved in the negotiations, and assisting in the financing.

Eddie
 
Smudger said:
oldboy, I`m thinking of sending an email to all the Villa players, if they don`t win the remaining 6 games i shall confiscate their luxury cars & put them on £20 a week. Do you think that will work?
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Smudger:

Years ago, they would have gone back down the coal mines.

Eddie
 
Smudger said:
oldboy, I`m thinking of sending an email to all the Villa players, if they don`t win the remaining 6 games i shall confiscate their luxury cars & put them on £20 a week. Do you think that will work?
Click to expand...

Hi Smudger,

The likes of Stan Matthews, Tom Finney, Trevor Ford and Gerry Hitchens did quite well on £20 per week but that was some time ago. In any case your Email would have to be in half a dozen different languages so I would not bother if I were you.

Old Boy
 
Old Boy said:
Hi Smudger,

The likes of Stan Matthews, Tom Finney, Trevor Ford and Gerry Hitchens did quite well on £20 per week but that was some time ago. In any case your Email would have to be in half a dozen different languages so I would not bother if I were you.

Old Boy
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Yes you`re right about sending emails in half a dozen languages. As far as Villa are concerned it`s a case of multi culturism not working! Anyway, these days i`d rather watch schoolkids footie, much more entertaining.
 
Long Life Villa Fan sad days at Villa Park Randy completed something that even the Germans in Ww11 couldn't do destroy Aston Villa Park.

Ray a Villa fan for over 70 years.
 
Hi Ray,

If you have supported Villa for over 70 years you have seen some of the good times too. I have supported Blues for 80 years but have not seen many good times. Do not be down hearted Villa Park is still there and surely the good times will return but, I am afraid, not soon. It is in the interests of this great city to have two successful teams so let us hope we do not have to wait too long or those that follow us.

Old Boy
 
Smudger said:
Yes you`re right about sending emails in half a dozen languages. As far as Villa are concerned it`s a case of multi culturism not working! Anyway, these days i`d rather watch schoolkids footie, much more entertaining.
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I feel the same way about America Football, I would much rather watch College or Schoolkids Football than the Pros.
 
Hello Chris, I have deleted the post giving the reason as bad taste, great minds think alike...
 
Well folk I was almost right. Villa and Newcastle were relegated but not Sunderland. It was Norwich instead.
Perhaps Eddie (The percussionist) will visit Delia Smith and commisserate on our behalf. However it is time to look forward rather than back. I forecast that Villa and Blues will still be in the Championship at the end of next season. Possibly being joined by Albion but I hope not The Villa now have new owners - Chinese. But beware Blues had new Chinese owners and it was forecast that their future would be all roses.#
As a lifelong Bluenose I wish Villa all the luck in the world. As for Blues it is fingers crossed that they will still be in existence the season after next. However, like Wimbledon, perhaps Phoenix can rise from the ashes.
Old Boy
 
You never can tell. A lot of teams only drop for one season and go straight up again. Blues have been pushing the top end at various times in the season (though, not at the end) for the last few years so there's always a chance.
 
I despair of the new Villa owners, no understanding of English football, all about finance. Bring back 'deadly Doug', at least they did win things and were in the top flight. I agree with Old Boy, neither Blues or Villa are good enough for the Premiership. In Villa's case the writing was on the wall when Benteki, Cleverly and the other player (his name escapes me) left and who could blame them. Good job Baggies had a good start or they would be joining them.
 
Yes cookie
I do believe there is sinister underlying with these guys I believe he as big planns for the villa
And I believe he his gonna alter afew wording within the villa logo,s with a added verse of
Chinese name its gonna be some think , some think Chinese villa
And a change logo gone of the lions and etc, I just cannot recall at the moment what I read
Some weeks back and bringing in Chinese players definitely a take over bid
That's why half the board as left remember the big things they said when they came to Longbridge
Up the tracks and went ,may be will build a big progoeder there but yes he said he had planns
Some think to do with Chinese connections
Let's wait and see, Astonian,,,,,
 
cookie273uk said:
In Villa's case the writing was on the wall when Benteki, Cleverly and the other player (his name escapes me) left and who could blame them. Good job Baggies had a good start or they would be joining them.
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Benteke left because Villa got a massive offer of over 30 million for him from Liverpool. Considering he only cost around 7 million that was a good "profit". Pity they never bothered to replace him with a decent striker !

Cleverly was never a permanent Villa player, He was only on loan from Man Utd to Villa and when Everton offered money for him Man Utd sold him to Everton.

In fact Villa bought quite a few players at the start of last season (Gueye, Sinclair, Richards, Bunn, Amavi, Ayew, Crespo, Gestede, Veretout) so the money was there, but as we have seen, many were not good enough.
 
Looking into the ownership history of the club I was very surprised to find that it 1874 Aston Villa was formed by members of the Villa Cross Wesleyan Chapel in Handsworth. The four founders were Jack Hughes, Frederick Matthews, Walter Price and William Scattergood.

Does this mean that the Club was originally owned by the church? Viv.
 
viv not sure if it was owned by the church...all i know is that the club was formed by those members...the clubs name would have derived from the fact that the area was orginally called aston villa....as this is my neck o the woods and i have done a lot of research on the area i do have newspaper snippet re the church and the club..will hunt it out later and post it...

lyn
 
Thanks Lyn. Now wondering at what point a football club becomes "owned"? Do the original founders own it? And how do the first owners become owners? In the beginning football wouldn't have been the money market it's become. It was about sport and sport alone. Viv.
 
viv football clubs are bought and sold so no the original founders would not own it now..just as an aside but i would think most aston villa supporters would know this and that is their first football ground was down perry barr.. more of less at the back of perry barr train station...
 
Ha, ha Lyn. No wasn't suggesting the original founders now own it!! What I'm trying to say is how do they become owned in the first place? Do the founders own it first of all, then sell it? Or would it have been made into a football club as a business? If so when? Interested to know from a historical perspective how football clubs like AV have evolved from church team to the multi-million pound concerns of today.

Viv.
 
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