• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Zolapower333

Brummie babby
My great grandfather Harry Edmunds was landlord of the Red Lamp from approx 1896 - 1916. On his death my great grandmother Ann Edmunds ran a mens sock shop near Saltley gasworks.
Does anyone have info on the Red Lamp or the shops near the gasworks.
I have a photo of the pub c1900, hope it attaches ok
thanks
Andrew
 

Attachments

  • Balsall Heath Hope St Red Lamp  .jpg
    Balsall Heath Hope St Red Lamp .jpg
    212.8 KB · Views: 57
Last edited by a moderator:
The address of the pub was 114 Hope St. From Kellys, Harry Edmund was listed there from sometime between 1905 and 1908 till at least 1915, it being occupied by William Cox in 1921. The pub first appears between 1849 and 1855, though not by name, almost certainly being a beerhouse, which at that time were not usually named in the directories. This would agree with the licensing sign above the door which mentions only ale, porter & cider. The pub disappeared between 1921 and 1932.
I haven’t come across Grigg & Brettell before, but the were a brewery that started about 1910 at the Cottage of Content pub in Kyrwick’s Lane, but by 1912 were listed as : Grigg & Brettell Limited, brewers, Montpellier Street & Cottage Home Brewery, Wellhead lane, Perry Barr. In 1908 the Cottage of Content was just a pub run by Henry Grigg, so presumably they started as a pub brewing their own beer (quite common then) and decided to expand into supplying , and possibly owning , other pubs. Presumably Harry was one of their first landlords. However by 1913 the Wellhead brewery had disappeared, leaving only Montpellier St, and by 1915 the firm itself had disappeared. One wonders, if the pub was owned/supplied by a brewery, how accurate was the “home bewed “ sign outside
The Red Lamp is shown (appropriately in red) on the 1889 map below

map 1889 showing the Red Lamp pub.jpg
 
Last edited:
My great grandfather Harry Edmunds was landlord of the Red Lamp from approx 1896 - 1916. On his death my great grandmother Ann Edmunds ran a mens sock shop near Saltley gasworks.
Does anyone have info on the Red Lamp or the shops near the gasworks.
I have a photo of the pub c1900, hope it attaches ok
thanks
Andrew

Great photo. I love the babby in the window probably being held up by it's mom:)
 
Harry Edmunds and family are down in the 1901 census as living round the corner in Sherlock Street, can't make out the full detail but it was in between 266 and 268. My auntie seems to recall stories from his wife of him being landlord in a number of pubs in the area
 
I did not find any evidence of Harry (or Henry) Edmunds as landlord of another pub in the period 1896-1921/ however, if he managed it for someone else another name might well be in Kellys. Could not find him on the electoral roll with Annie in 1920-22. In 1901 they lived in court 42, which I have marked in green on the map
mike


map 1889 showing the Red Lamp pub and ct 42 sherlock.st.jpg
 
Last edited:
Harry died 7 March 1918 at 2 Bloomsbury Street, Duddleston. I don't know to much about Ann from there other than the mens sock shop near the gasworks. She died in 1955
 
Interesting . 2 Bloomsbury St is the Junction Inn.
Ann (hosier sounds more exclusive than sock shop) was certainly at 69 Saltley road 1932-46. She is not listed 1949 , and I have no directories 1922-31,
though the electoral roll lists her there from 1922
Mike
 
hi my great grandfather ws listed at the red lamp address in 1901 cencus, as publician, he had wife called emma, sons george bakewell and frederick thomas charles, not sure if he worked for you grandfather or was the licensed pubilician there at the time, wondering if you repost the pic of the pub, as my grandfather was only small boy
 
George William Robinson is listed as the landlord at that address in the Kellys published 1900-1905, but not in the 1899 or 1908 editions. The information for these dire tories was collected over a period of a year or so before the publication date, so he was probably there from 1899to sometime between 1904 & 1907
 
hi lynda luckily i saved this photo...at the time it was taken it was run by harry edmunds

lyn

 
George William Robinson is listed as the landlord at that address in the Kellys published 1900-1905, but not in the 1899 or 1908 editions. The information for these dire tories was collected over a period of a year or so before the publication date, so he was probably there from 1899to sometime between 1904 & 1907

cheers would u have a pic to share
 
cheers very interesting, his father george senior had holding in greens lane 260 etc his brother walter was a hairdresser, george williams son frederick thomas charles or comes up as thomas robinson (was 9 years old) and his brother george bakwell (12yrs) at ime of residency at the pub. fred or thomas was my grand dad always told me they also owned the pig n whistle was there one in bissell st and would it be listed in the 1899 or 1908 editions of kellys
 
I have no pictures other than that above.
The trouble is that beerhouses ( which did not have a full licence and could onl y sell beer)were often listed just as "beer retailer" (which could also include off licences). therefore I do not know if there was a pig and whistle in bissell St. In fact ui cannot find a Pig & whistle listed in Birmingham, though there may well have been one under "beer retailer".
Robinson is a common name, and in 1899 there was a Thomas Robinson, beer retailer at 21 Muntz St, while in 1908 there were beer retailers under that name at 244 Moseley St & 115 Pritchett St.Assuming thye were pubs and not off-licences, there is no indication as to the name .
 
My great great grandmother Elizabeth (Betsy) Turland was also living in Hope Street in 1901, at another beerseller's shop at number 54. This was on the south side of the street, two properties east of the School, so within a hundred yards or so of the Red Lamp. I think the shop was probably not so well appointed, as yours, though the plot is larger than average for Hope Street, and has a narrow yard and a couple of sheds behind it, rather than the congested 'Courts' that lie behind most of Hope Street houses. The street must have been horribly crowded, and noisy in the day (from the School), at night (from the Music Hall opposite), and possibly at the weekends from the Baptist Chapel further towards Gooch Street (that also has an interesting history). Plus all the pubs.

The beer retailer at 54 was Joseph Sheffield, who lived there with his father and young son; his wife had died and Elizabeth came to live with them as a housekeeper. There was also a young servant, who presumably helped in the shop. Elizabeth was originally from the village of Great Glen in Leicestershire, and had had a rough life. She left a young son Robert with friends in Great Glen when she was just a young girl, then married a man with whom she had two daughters. Both little girls died in the slums of Leicester, and her husband was prosecuted for abandoning her and one of the daughters. They ended up in the workhouse, temporarily. Although Elizabeth is shown in the 1901 census as a widow, in fact her husband was still alive in Leicester. She remembered the little Sheffield boy with a small bequest in her will when she died back in Leicester, in 1909. And her own son was my great grandfather, Robert Grant.

Any more photos of Hope Street would be very welcome! the ones originally posted seem mainly to have disappeared.
 
hi have these of hope st...the one shows hope st school

lyn
 

Attachments

  • Balsall Heath Hope St 1967.JPG
    Balsall Heath Hope St 1967.JPG
    147.6 KB · Views: 65
  • Balsall Heath Hope St School.jpg
    Balsall Heath Hope St School.jpg
    90.7 KB · Views: 58
  • Balsall Heath Hope St.jpg
    Balsall Heath Hope St.jpg
    137.3 KB · Views: 55
  • Balsall Heath Hope Street.jpg
    Balsall Heath Hope Street.jpg
    119.3 KB · Views: 60
I have no pictures other than that above.
The trouble is that beerhouses ( which did not have a full licence and could onl y sell beer)were often listed just as "beer retailer" (which could also include off licences). therefore I do not know if there was a pig and whistle in bissell St. In fact ui cannot find a Pig & whistle listed in Birmingham, though there may well have been one under "beer retailer".
Robinson is a common name, and in 1899 there was a Thomas Robinson, beer retailer at 21 Muntz St, while in 1908 there were beer retailers under that name at 244 Moseley St & 115 Pritchett St.Assuming thye were pubs and not off-licences, there is no indication as to the name .

There was a Pig and Whistle in Bissel Street, two guys had it on a 25 year lease from M&B, changed the pub name to Pig and Whistle and I was the manager for a while back in 1986/87. We were very very busy lunchtimes Mon-Fri because of the local businesses and between half five and seven then it was a empty and I'd lock up mon - thurs come about half past seven, great little put it was too :)
 
Richard.
Thank you for the information. Do you mean that the pub had another name and was changed to the Pig & Whistle. I do not think that could have been the one referred to (unless the name had been changed twice) as the original question referred to around 1900
 
The address of the pub was 114 Hope St. From Kellys, Harry Edmund was listed there from sometime between 1905 and 1908 till at least 1915, it being occupied by William Cox in 1921. The pub first appears between 1849 and 1855, though not by name, almost certainly being a beerhouse, which at that time were not usually named in the directories. This would agree with the licensing sign above the door which mentions only ale, porter & cider. The pub disappeared between 1921 and 1932.
I haven’t come across Grigg & Brettell before, but the were a brewery that started about 1910 at the Cottage of Content pub in Kyrwick’s Lane, but by 1912 were listed as : Grigg & Brettell Limited, brewers, Montpellier Street & Cottage Home Brewery, Wellhead lane, Perry Barr. In 1908 the Cottage of Content was just a pub run by Henry Grigg, so presumably they started as a pub brewing their own beer (quite common then) and decided to expand into supplying , and possibly owning , other pubs. Presumably Harry was one of their first landlords. However by 1913 the Wellhead brewery had disappeared, leaving only Montpellier St, and by 1915 the firm itself had disappeared. One wonders, if the pub was owned/supplied by a brewery, how accurate was the “home bewed “ sign outside
The Red Lamp is shown (appropriately in red) on the 1889 map below

map1889showingtheRedLamppubandct42sherlst.jpg
At last I can see my grandfather’s name. He was William Cox . I have been trying to find out about him . I have his 1st world war medals. He was injured and I have photos of him in his hospital uniform. I have been told that he was gassed and also shot. If anyone has any information I would be grateful. I have just seen so old papers and it mentioned the Red Lamp
 
My great grandfather Harry Edmunds was landlord of the Red Lamp from approx 1896 - 1916. On his death my great grandmother Ann Edmunds ran a mens sock shop near Saltley gasworks.
Does anyone have info on the Red Lamp or the shops near the gasworks.
I have a photo of the pub c1900, hope it attaches ok
thanks
Andrew
Hi
My Grandfather was William Cox and was the landlord 1921.
 
Back
Top