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Oldest Public House in Hockley
- Thread starter LucyJayne
- Start date
dwilly
master brummie
https://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-217299-the-jewellers-arms-public-house-
Listed building 1840c so yes must be up there
Listed building 1840c so yes must be up there
hi mossy
nice to hear from you and hope you are well ;and thanks for the picture my mother used to go with her parents in the early 1900s
when she was a small child to the lord clifton and told me of the partys there with the management this was in the very early 1900s
so it was great to see an orinional picture and with the stained glass windows all in tact ;
so it was built before the jewers arms as i thought but i did not want to shoot any body down as i was not to sure i had to try and recall
the jewlers arms as its been years that i was in the hockley pubs as to where it was ;
mossy ; or guys ; what is the pub at the top of warstone lane directly facing the clock there its a big pub;right on the corner by the clock alot of police from keyon police station used to drink in there inspector bauber later became chiefe constable and enie robinson ;
best wishe4s astonian;
nice to hear from you and hope you are well ;and thanks for the picture my mother used to go with her parents in the early 1900s
when she was a small child to the lord clifton and told me of the partys there with the management this was in the very early 1900s
so it was great to see an orinional picture and with the stained glass windows all in tact ;
so it was built before the jewers arms as i thought but i did not want to shoot any body down as i was not to sure i had to try and recall
the jewlers arms as its been years that i was in the hockley pubs as to where it was ;
mossy ; or guys ; what is the pub at the top of warstone lane directly facing the clock there its a big pub;right on the corner by the clock alot of police from keyon police station used to drink in there inspector bauber later became chiefe constable and enie robinson ;
best wishe4s astonian;
W
Wendy
Guest
The Rose Villa Tavern was built in 1919.
The earliest directory mentions i can find are in Pigots 1829 and Wrightson's 1829 directories, though the latter does not list the name of the establishment. At this time it is 80 Constitution Hill. The victualers database lists it as Barnard wilkes (also there in the 1829) as being at the pub in 1825-1827, so I guess that it first became a pub in 1825
thanks mike although i dont think that is the original pub...im also not too sure about the caption to the pic moss posted saying that its a james and lister lea rebuild....its nothing like the lister lea pubs i have seen...ie the bartons arms..the gunmakers gerrard st..red lion soho road..the anchor bradford st...they all have a very distinct design and red brick colour..james and lister lea built the majority of their pubs very late 1800s early 1900s...
lyn
lyn
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H
Happyguy
Guest
I think it is not a good idea to assume that all pubs designed by the Lea brothers were all terracotta, as shown by this photo of The Old Fox on Hurst St. Shown is comparison pubs
Attachments
i agree happy guy the caption that comes with the photo of the white horse could well be true... but its not just the lack of terracota on the white horse cellars pub its the shape of it..very normal and nothing to shout about... i didnt know that the fox was also a james and lister lea pub so thanks for that info..cant remember what colour it was when i used it in the early 70s but im sure it wasnt white..
thanks for the pics....
lyn
thanks for the pics....
lyn
brianthelion
master brummie
Hi there, can anyone help please? What was the name of the pub (which closed in the 1950's I think) which is now the Hylton Cafe on the corner of Hylton and Vyse Streets in the Jewellery Quarter. Many thanks
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Hi Brian. The premises you refer to at 2 Hylton St has not been a public house since at least the first third of the 20th century. Then it was only a beer house and it was never named in any Kelly's Directory that I have. As far as I am aware the oldest pub in the Jewellery Quarter (I don't know about Hockley) is the Jewellers Arms. You might find the name of the beer house at 2 Hylton St in the census records.
debbieironmonger
master brummie
Hi Mike I have just come across this reply of yours while searching my ancestor who was listed in 1833 Wrightson Triennial Directory of Birmingham as: Vict. 120 Great Hampton Street. His Name was Joseph Patrick. In 1841 census his wife Mary is listed as an Inn Keeper in Great Hampton Street. Do you happen to know what the difference is between an Inn Keeper and a Licenced Victualler? And another cheeky question, any idea's on the name of the premises they may have kept?
As I understand it, an innkeeper is a person who holds a licence to keep an inn, which usually also provided accomodation and food jf required. It had a full licence to sell beer, wines and spirits. A licensed victualler had a licence to sell some form of alcohol, but this could be just a beer licence (ie it was a beerhouse, often very small , possibly a converted terrace house) . I am not sure, but believe may also include those with an off licence to sell alcohol for consumption only off the premises. thus an innkeeper could be described as a licensed victualler, but not necessarily vice versa.
Pigot's 1841 and the Post Office 1845 directories both list Joseph Patrick as being the landlord of the Commercial Inn, 120 Gt Hampton St. It was not uncommon in censuses for the male incumbent of a pub to have another profession while holding the licence of the pub. Indeed it was probably a necessity for smaller pubs and beerhouses. In these cases the husband sometime put his profession down as , say, jeweller, butcher, etc, while the wife, who did all the work in the pub put down publican, though this did not always occur. Probably depended on how honest they were as to the division of labour.
Pigot's 1841 and the Post Office 1845 directories both list Joseph Patrick as being the landlord of the Commercial Inn, 120 Gt Hampton St. It was not uncommon in censuses for the male incumbent of a pub to have another profession while holding the licence of the pub. Indeed it was probably a necessity for smaller pubs and beerhouses. In these cases the husband sometime put his profession down as , say, jeweller, butcher, etc, while the wife, who did all the work in the pub put down publican, though this did not always occur. Probably depended on how honest they were as to the division of labour.
Hi mike
Many thanks I thought it might have been thou because my mother told me of there family of the jelfs
And the perks and her grand parents apparently spent a lot of time there with billy cotton and wee Georgie would whom apparently
Was all connected to the thwarted and used to travel abroad with these guys quite often
My youngest sister as all these pics of them all together on the gongalers in Venice and others taken all running together
Arm in arms along on different beaches her mother and her mothers sister was in the theaters as stage dancers
Whom also rana dance school down in nechells
Onnechells park red her named was a perks dancing stage teachers school of dancing
And they spent many many hours at the lord Clifton partying it until the early hours
And giving the age all born in the 1800, that being her grand fathers and her mothers family the perks
I would most definitely say the lord Clifton as to be one of the oldest pubs in Shockley, do you not think so,
Have a nice day mike and thanks for replying Alan,,, Astonian,,,,
Many thanks I thought it might have been thou because my mother told me of there family of the jelfs
And the perks and her grand parents apparently spent a lot of time there with billy cotton and wee Georgie would whom apparently
Was all connected to the thwarted and used to travel abroad with these guys quite often
My youngest sister as all these pics of them all together on the gongalers in Venice and others taken all running together
Arm in arms along on different beaches her mother and her mothers sister was in the theaters as stage dancers
Whom also rana dance school down in nechells
Onnechells park red her named was a perks dancing stage teachers school of dancing
And they spent many many hours at the lord Clifton partying it until the early hours
And giving the age all born in the 1800, that being her grand fathers and her mothers family the perks
I would most definitely say the lord Clifton as to be one of the oldest pubs in Shockley, do you not think so,
Have a nice day mike and thanks for replying Alan,,, Astonian,,,,
debbieironmonger
master brummie
Hi Mike, once again I have to thank you for your excellent knowledge and quick response. He was recorded in later census as a steel button maker so that would explain why his wife was later described as an Inn Keeper. Thanks for the information and supplying a copy of the map. Brilliant!