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old streets
- Thread starter gingerjon
- Start date
they are like the statues since long gone, been flogged ,vanerlised , demolished by tom ,dick and
harry and either been knocked down ,
for the big boys to make money .
convertsd to a hypo market or a dammed car park
by the planning dept
if you ever went into basker ville house ,
you would asked your self ,,
why on earth sell a beautiful place like that .
it makes you want to cry ,
harry and either been knocked down ,
for the big boys to make money .
convertsd to a hypo market or a dammed car park
by the planning dept
if you ever went into basker ville house ,
you would asked your self ,,
why on earth sell a beautiful place like that .
it makes you want to cry ,
JOHN OLD ONES WAS BETTER,
IT,S INTRESTING TO LISTEN TO THEM TALKING ON RADIO
ABOUT DOUBLE GLAZING AND DRAUGHTS PROOFING.
THE OLD WAYS AND WALLS WERE BETTER AS FRESH AIR GOT THROUGH.
AS WELL IF FIRE BROKE OUT, I FEAR IT WOULD BE HARDER
TO BREAK A DOUBLE GLAZED WINDOW TO TRY AND GET OUT --ALIVE
THIRTY YEARS AGO I SAW A ,, BURN ANY THINK STOVE,,
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR OF A 16, BED WARD IN AN OLD 160YEAR OLD HOSPITAL.
IT WAS QUAINTAND THE HEAT emanated from all sides.
a kettle sat on top of it and it looked cosy,and not abit of heat lossed.
A pipe, or chimmney,reached sky wards through the roof.
that hospital was up dated and had lifts istalled and had fire escapes added as well.
as well as out side covered slip ways, and thenthey raized it to the ground
about twenty years ago.
I cried when i saw space only on passing.
In my view, these new building and ideas from planning department,
Will never supass the old .
IT,S INTRESTING TO LISTEN TO THEM TALKING ON RADIO
ABOUT DOUBLE GLAZING AND DRAUGHTS PROOFING.
THE OLD WAYS AND WALLS WERE BETTER AS FRESH AIR GOT THROUGH.
AS WELL IF FIRE BROKE OUT, I FEAR IT WOULD BE HARDER
TO BREAK A DOUBLE GLAZED WINDOW TO TRY AND GET OUT --ALIVE
THIRTY YEARS AGO I SAW A ,, BURN ANY THINK STOVE,,
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR OF A 16, BED WARD IN AN OLD 160YEAR OLD HOSPITAL.
IT WAS QUAINTAND THE HEAT emanated from all sides.
a kettle sat on top of it and it looked cosy,and not abit of heat lossed.
A pipe, or chimmney,reached sky wards through the roof.
that hospital was up dated and had lifts istalled and had fire escapes added as well.
as well as out side covered slip ways, and thenthey raized it to the ground
about twenty years ago.
I cried when i saw space only on passing.
In my view, these new building and ideas from planning department,
Will never supass the old .
jennyann
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Not only that Astonian, most of them are ugly. The main story you hear is that it would cost too much to bring these old buildings up to date. Some I would agree on but so many just get demolished because of the cost to repair them. Also, many of them contain asbestos which when decided it was very dangerous to your health had to be removed.
The thing is that modern buildings contain so many chemicals and poisons, so it makes you wonder. The new buildings are very much sealed up and people are getting very ill from the air within these buildings. A great loss that the old buildings are being demolished because in other parts of the world they have done some great restoration jobs on old buildings and deemed it was worth it.
The thing is that modern buildings contain so many chemicals and poisons, so it makes you wonder. The new buildings are very much sealed up and people are getting very ill from the air within these buildings. A great loss that the old buildings are being demolished because in other parts of the world they have done some great restoration jobs on old buildings and deemed it was worth it.
R
Rod
Guest
To be fair, there is another side. The new trend seems to be to save the frontages of these older buildings, they prop them up and support them while they rip the internal structure out, then rebuild within, tying the new internal to the outer skin. So you have the same look at the end of it all, but a modern up to date building within.
I'm not sure how you might view the results, while it looks the same, it doesnt in a lot of respects have the same feel. I also suspect that we are mourning the passing of something that ammounts to more than just the buildings and streets?
I'm not sure how you might view the results, while it looks the same, it doesnt in a lot of respects have the same feel. I also suspect that we are mourning the passing of something that ammounts to more than just the buildings and streets?
Oisin
gone but not forgotten
Edmund Street is still much as it is in John's picture. That area between Colmore Row and Livery Street is probably one of the few areas of the city centre that has remained relatively unspoilt. That style of street lamp has recently been re-introduced and there are now quite a few of them scattered around the city, including the newer parts.
I'll try and get some pictures of Edmund Street and the lamps next time I'm in town (if I can escape from the shopping
).
As Rod states, there are some good examples of the façades of some buildings being retained: The old Children's Hospital in Ladywood being one. There are other good examples along Great Hampton Street - sadly they do not include the old Duke of York at the top of Key Hill, which is now being demolished. :'(
I'll try and get some pictures of Edmund Street and the lamps next time I'm in town (if I can escape from the shopping
).As Rod states, there are some good examples of the façades of some buildings being retained: The old Children's Hospital in Ladywood being one. There are other good examples along Great Hampton Street - sadly they do not include the old Duke of York at the top of Key Hill, which is now being demolished. :'(
There did not seem any justification to criminally destoy such a beautiful building, now lost FOREVER .  I think they began to realise their stupid mistakes and began to preserve the character of surrounds by the method which Rod has described. We have visited lots of towns around britain and its a case of " you have seen one you you have seen the lot" in most cases.  All the new stands empty after a couple of years, but then they replace it with another future heap of rubble.
Oisin. Sorry l did not wish to contradict your posting.
Oisin. Sorry l did not wish to contradict your posting.
B
Beryl M
Guest
Something sort of obscene happens to an old building when it is about to come down. Drive by one - and you'll pick up the impending-doom vibe right away. Its skeleton often stands exposed - sometimes naked to the tarpaper or lath. It's usually stripped of its windows and trim and anything else of remote monetary value along with its dignity and grace and much of the magic it has tucked between its boards over the many decades it has stood there. It almost seems to be bracing for the blow that will bring it crumbling to the ground.
Sure - I understand the economics of property and the allure of redevelopment -such a lovely euphemism for what sometimes amounts to a raping of collective heritage -
And yes I realize buildings don't warrant preservation simply by virtue of being old - They are vintage buildings that have seen their heyday come and go -whose useful lives have been spent and whose structural integrity is compromised to a point where public safety is a growing concern. And in some cases these structures are sometimes a bit ugly. Their demolition need not necessarily provoke widespread outcry.
It is when a building is leveled for the simple offense of having become inconvenient that my hackles me
I understand there are often reasons beyond mere base greed that lead to this situation where old buildings are reduced to rubble to make way for bigger - newer ones. And people like wash rooms with generous space of such amenities
I just find something unspeakably sad about an old building is unceremoniously obliterated by a wrecking ball just because something newer and more user-friendly can be put on its piece of property. There must be a better way than the alarming habit we have developed of razing old buildings largely because they constitute obstacles to economic gain. It is as if they are just worthless relics of days we no longer live and do not feel much need to hold in any particular regard.
Yes - a landowner - even if he or she is a developer - is entitled to derive the highest and best use from a given property. I get that - too.
They way I see it - It would not hurt a forward thinker who has the stretch of imagination to submit ways to save old buildings from obliteration by stepping a few paces farther into the creative realm. As Rod seems to indicate by keeping the shell they might see ways to adapt and update those structures gently and kindly to enable them to still be of some use
Maybe folks could get together and begin to advocate actively on behalf of historic structures - to argue compellingly that once these buildings are gone - there is no replacing that piece of your past.
It has been said that people are much of what gives a geographic entity its sense of place - that buildings in the final analysis are not much more than bricks and mortar –
However though that may be - both wise forward looking people will also look behind to the hard work and dreams put into the creation of those buildings that remain from those early days in the city - because if you do not – no one else will.
Sure - I understand the economics of property and the allure of redevelopment -such a lovely euphemism for what sometimes amounts to a raping of collective heritage -
And yes I realize buildings don't warrant preservation simply by virtue of being old - They are vintage buildings that have seen their heyday come and go -whose useful lives have been spent and whose structural integrity is compromised to a point where public safety is a growing concern. And in some cases these structures are sometimes a bit ugly. Their demolition need not necessarily provoke widespread outcry.
It is when a building is leveled for the simple offense of having become inconvenient that my hackles me
I understand there are often reasons beyond mere base greed that lead to this situation where old buildings are reduced to rubble to make way for bigger - newer ones. And people like wash rooms with generous space of such amenities
I just find something unspeakably sad about an old building is unceremoniously obliterated by a wrecking ball just because something newer and more user-friendly can be put on its piece of property. There must be a better way than the alarming habit we have developed of razing old buildings largely because they constitute obstacles to economic gain. It is as if they are just worthless relics of days we no longer live and do not feel much need to hold in any particular regard.
Yes - a landowner - even if he or she is a developer - is entitled to derive the highest and best use from a given property. I get that - too.
They way I see it - It would not hurt a forward thinker who has the stretch of imagination to submit ways to save old buildings from obliteration by stepping a few paces farther into the creative realm. As Rod seems to indicate by keeping the shell they might see ways to adapt and update those structures gently and kindly to enable them to still be of some use
Maybe folks could get together and begin to advocate actively on behalf of historic structures - to argue compellingly that once these buildings are gone - there is no replacing that piece of your past.
It has been said that people are much of what gives a geographic entity its sense of place - that buildings in the final analysis are not much more than bricks and mortar –
However though that may be - both wise forward looking people will also look behind to the hard work and dreams put into the creation of those buildings that remain from those early days in the city - because if you do not – no one else will.
I seem to remember many years ago walking along Colmore Row and looking and commenting as l walked, about the sculptures that were on the biuldings from the Grand Hotel along to the Council House ( from the opposite side of the road of coarse. ) I also commented at the time that a lot of people do not look above eye level and therefore miss those sculptures.
I now seem to feel that some of these may have been lost, am l correct in thinking so ?
I now seem to feel that some of these may have been lost, am l correct in thinking so ?
Oisin
gone but not forgotten
Ernie,
Did you contradict me?
I must have missed it. 
Never worry about that anyway cos I often go on with a load of old tosh.
I agree with you about eye-level. The best part of our architecture is above shop window level, where few seldom look. Your mention of the Grand reminds me that after years of neglect, that is another example of the façade being maintained, even if the interior grandeur is sadly gone. I s'pose compromise is what life's about though.
Did you contradict me?
Never worry about that anyway cos I often go on with a load of old tosh.
I agree with you about eye-level. The best part of our architecture is above shop window level, where few seldom look. Your mention of the Grand reminds me that after years of neglect, that is another example of the façade being maintained, even if the interior grandeur is sadly gone. I s'pose compromise is what life's about though.
O
O.C.
Guest
Dennis you are quite right in what you say, I have a City Guilds in Brickwork technology and A neighbour came round and said, "Come round and see what my son has built in the garden a fabulous garden wall"
so I did, his son had been on a bricklaying course for 2 years and I took one look on what he had built and thought If he has to do this for a living the clerk of works would condemn it and make him knock it down, everything was wrong to straight joints, bad brickwork and none of it made sense.
So what did I say ............Nothing...........I just thought ...If this is the future we aint got a dogs chance in hell
so I did, his son had been on a bricklaying course for 2 years and I took one look on what he had built and thought If he has to do this for a living the clerk of works would condemn it and make him knock it down, everything was wrong to straight joints, bad brickwork and none of it made sense.
So what did I say ............Nothing...........I just thought ...If this is the future we aint got a dogs chance in hell
Di.Poppitt
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
There are still craftsmen about, but we coudn't afford them 
They work on conservation, and take years to match their work with the old building.
They work on conservation, and take years to match their work with the old building.
B
Beryl M
Guest
A good architect is what you need who is into design - Inside the U of T the Victorian look has been kept even with modern day elevators - A professional engineer expertise to see what is feasible may be to an interior designer for decor
Oisin
gone but not forgotten
Windsor Castle was put right after the fire and I have seen some great craftsmanship going into the refurbishment of NT buildings but, as Di says, these craftsmen dictate their own prices. There have always been cowboys who will do a cheap job. Trouble is, these days, they don't charge cheap prices.
Osin.  I did not wish to sound as if I contradicted you, please forgive me if I made it sound like that.  The part at the side of the Library is untouched as you say ( I park there most times l go but did not know it was all part of Edmund Street , l shall be thinking of you now whenever I go.)  I was thinking of the photo of the part that ran from the traffic Island (Hall Of Memory) years ago to where the Central Library now stands.  My aunt used to work at the Grand Hotel , but l must admit that the grand building were worlds away years ago but now l see the Splender of them.
Is it possible to be proud to be a Brummie and at the same time feel humble ?
There were all types of buildings in Birmingham,  most people glad to see the back of them but not to lose the grander buildings ( I contradict myself now to say l was pleased to see the slums go but then l began to wish l had at least a photo, l did get one from the Central Library which l now treasure.
Is it possible to be proud to be a Brummie and at the same time feel humble ?
There were all types of buildings in Birmingham,  most people glad to see the back of them but not to lose the grander buildings ( I contradict myself now to say l was pleased to see the slums go but then l began to wish l had at least a photo, l did get one from the Central Library which l now treasure.
I think that most buildings today are built on a budget and that is why a lot of concrete is used in them. A new school being built at the bottom of our road appears to be that way but l cannot pass any comments until it is finished as it may well be faced with a brick exterior. About 30 years ago we had a new factory built onto the existing one making it twice the size in both directions. The walls I imagine were 13 1/2 inches thick and no two bricks lay level with each other, WHY ? because the job had to be finished by a certain time. Cost effective by men and materials l would say.
Its concrete inside with an outer covering of metal. glass, decorative stone or brickwork.
I think that sometimes economics creep into it even with the grandest of buildings
Its concrete inside with an outer covering of metal. glass, decorative stone or brickwork.
I think that sometimes economics creep into it even with the grandest of buildings
Oisin
gone but not forgotten
Ernie, there is absolutely no need to apologise. I can't even see where we've been at odds. This is a discussion forum and, even if we had differing views, which we haven't, there would be no need to feel apologetic about it.
Anyway, it could be that we're a little at cross purposes: The area I first commented on is that roughly bordered by Colmore Row, Gt Charles Street and Livery Street. I fully agree with you that the area around the Central Library has been virtually decimated. But, although there are many monstrosities erected, there have been some very aesthetically pleasing structures built of concrete and glass around the city in recent years.
This is a great this topic so please keep posting. O0
Anyway, it could be that we're a little at cross purposes: The area I first commented on is that roughly bordered by Colmore Row, Gt Charles Street and Livery Street. I fully agree with you that the area around the Central Library has been virtually decimated. But, although there are many monstrosities erected, there have been some very aesthetically pleasing structures built of concrete and glass around the city in recent years.
This is a great this topic so please keep posting. O0
Oisin. Thank you for your kind comments, but l must add that l am sure that you know far more about Birmingham than l do. I left Birmingham when l was age 17 1/2 years but still feel that l partly belong to it.
My world was mostly around Coleman Street , Duddeston and l would have to refer to the AZ Street Atlas, Birmingham to know the names or districts of Birmingham. That is one of the rewarding things about Family History as to where Ancestors lived and worked even though some of these parts have disappeared but l still like to think they are still there. They mean so much to me when l have the stories from my Family Tree to fit into them.
My world was mostly around Coleman Street , Duddeston and l would have to refer to the AZ Street Atlas, Birmingham to know the names or districts of Birmingham. That is one of the rewarding things about Family History as to where Ancestors lived and worked even though some of these parts have disappeared but l still like to think they are still there. They mean so much to me when l have the stories from my Family Tree to fit into them.
Peter Walker
gone but not forgotten
What a lovely pic of Martineau Street John has found.
Totally off-topic, but seeing that Cromwell has done a brickwork C&G course, I think he may be interested to see a picture I took in Hannover in Germany last month for a drinking mate of mine who is a brickwork technology instructor here in Croydon. It shows some fabulous brickwork (and joinery too), which incudes window tracery made in special bricks. They don't do that any more in Germany, but they admire it and look after it.
Petrer
Totally off-topic, but seeing that Cromwell has done a brickwork C&G course, I think he may be interested to see a picture I took in Hannover in Germany last month for a drinking mate of mine who is a brickwork technology instructor here in Croydon. It shows some fabulous brickwork (and joinery too), which incudes window tracery made in special bricks. They don't do that any more in Germany, but they admire it and look after it.
Petrer
O
O.C.
Guest
Nice one Peter, intresting to note they used hard nosed blue bricks for the sills, trying to stay on topic
My brother bought a derelict house house in Ottery St Mary and asked my advice on restoring it to its former glory as it was rotten from top to bottom, the walls were faced brickwork 2 feet wide with rubble infill, the floors on the ground floor did not exist and all that was their was soil, and when we got stuck in on the project much to our horror we found he did not own the roof.
The Old lady who lived in it before she died had sold the roof space to the plumber next door so he could store all his copper pipes in the roof space, after a lot of legal wrangling we managed to get it back.
We ended up getting the whole of the floors done with tarmacadam which turned out wonderful after silicone injecting the walls to stop the rising damp.
His mate down the road was not so lucky when he started to strip the plaster out of his front room he discovered it was wattle and dub......and when the clerk of works seen it he had to stop everything and could not carry on, so today 16 years later he cannot change what they made him do.
He had to leave a 6ft piece showing the wattle and dub and cover it with a piece of clear plastic and plaster up to it then decorate.....so now this plastic hole is a kinda feature in the house.
Planning laws are real crazy his first shop had no running water at all in it but he had to pay water rates.
Because water runs off the roof and into the drains and he was told take your roof off and you need not pay it..........A lot of folk do that to stop the unfair bill if you have a large factory ......so now ya know Why
Repairing old building is quite a minefield of rules and regulations thats why a lot of the properties are demolished overnight as I know of three cases where this has happened.
How long did the Old Crown stay derelict ? 10-20 years the owner had his hands tied by the so called experts who wait till its nearly at a point of no return for the building  then give the go-ahead to do what you wanted to do in the first place. I went in their and it was gutted, thieves had stolen virtually everything even the fireplaces.......Some Departments work with the people......others against... its the luck of the draw
My brother bought a derelict house house in Ottery St Mary and asked my advice on restoring it to its former glory as it was rotten from top to bottom, the walls were faced brickwork 2 feet wide with rubble infill, the floors on the ground floor did not exist and all that was their was soil, and when we got stuck in on the project much to our horror we found he did not own the roof.
The Old lady who lived in it before she died had sold the roof space to the plumber next door so he could store all his copper pipes in the roof space, after a lot of legal wrangling we managed to get it back.
We ended up getting the whole of the floors done with tarmacadam which turned out wonderful after silicone injecting the walls to stop the rising damp.
His mate down the road was not so lucky when he started to strip the plaster out of his front room he discovered it was wattle and dub......and when the clerk of works seen it he had to stop everything and could not carry on, so today 16 years later he cannot change what they made him do.
He had to leave a 6ft piece showing the wattle and dub and cover it with a piece of clear plastic and plaster up to it then decorate.....so now this plastic hole is a kinda feature in the house.
Planning laws are real crazy his first shop had no running water at all in it but he had to pay water rates.
Because water runs off the roof and into the drains and he was told take your roof off and you need not pay it..........A lot of folk do that to stop the unfair bill if you have a large factory ......so now ya know Why
Repairing old building is quite a minefield of rules and regulations thats why a lot of the properties are demolished overnight as I know of three cases where this has happened.
How long did the Old Crown stay derelict ? 10-20 years the owner had his hands tied by the so called experts who wait till its nearly at a point of no return for the building  then give the go-ahead to do what you wanted to do in the first place. I went in their and it was gutted, thieves had stolen virtually everything even the fireplaces.......Some Departments work with the people......others against... its the luck of the draw