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Old English/Latin/Dog Latin

P

PJay

knowlegable brummie
Is there anybody who knows of somebody who could translate some old documents and won't charge the earth. I don't need the documents fully translated to to see if there is a dwelling name.

TIA
 
pjmburns said:
Is it too large to post on here?
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Hi Janice, I never even thought of that! One is to large. I don't need the whole thing translating I'm trying to find out if there's a name of a dwelling or field name. I managed a few words but I'm not the most patient person :laughing:
 

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  • Croft v Hardwkye 1532-1538.jpg
    Croft v Hardwkye 1532-1538.jpg
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Can you give us any idea of the area you may think it refers to ?
The title right honourable may suggest a Member of Parliament ?
Sir (something) Sudeley ?
 
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It looks English to me. To me the first line on the right hand reads 'To the right honorable Sir Thomas Audley.... of England

Don't know if it helps but what I do is type the document out putting in the words I can read and leaving spaces for those I can't. Then I go back and try to make sense of what I've got and sometimes I can make out others.
 
Yes - probably Sudeley. Definitely English - looks like an appeal to 'his lordship' to sort out a complaint. They seem to have the motto 'why use one word when a dozen will do' in those days. There are a couple of names at least but I haven't spotted what it refers to.

I'm away for a week from tomorrow but will have a look at it when I get back unless someone is a whizz at this sort of thing.
 
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Lady Penelope said:
It looks English to me. To me the first line on the right hand reads 'To the right honorable Sir Thomas Audley.... of England

Don't know if it helps but what I do is type the document out putting in the words I can read and leaving spaces for those I can't. Then I go back and try to make sense of what I've got and sometimes I can make out others.
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That's interesting as Thomas Audley was Lord Chancellor from 1533 to 1544. In the title it could say Lord Chancellor.

“To the right honourable Sir Thomas Audrey (???) Lord Chancellor of England.”
 
I do think it's a plea and the heading reads:

To the Right Honourable Sir Thomas Audeley
........ Lord Chancellor of England

I also forgot to say that once you are sure of a word you can find the same letters elsewhere in the document.

(I was just writing this when your message came up Pedro.)
 
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The document mentions several names one being John. He appears at least 3 times but his surname looks different each time.
Presuming that Honourable is correct his name begins with 'H' but on reflection it's a very strange name in that case.
 
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@Lady Penelope @Pedrocut - The Latin document is to big to post
Thank you so much you wonderful people (and thoses I have @) The document is related to Brimfield, Herefordshire 1532 - 1538 Croft is also of Croft Castle. Hardwyke was Brimfield. There's a possibility it could relate to Bromfield, Shropshire as the Old English spelling would often confuse the 2 (In this case I don't think it is)
 
Lady Penelope said:
Yes - probably Sudeley. Definitely English - looks like an appeal to 'his lordship' to sort out a complaint. They seem to have the motto 'why use one word when a dozen will do' in those days. There are a couple of names at least but I haven't spotted what it refers to.

I'm away for a week from tomorrow but will have a look at it when I get back unless someone is a whizz at this sort of thing.
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Lady P - You are a super star
 
This legal document, I agree it appears to be a plea, is actually written in Early Modern English, so we shouldn't talk about Old English (which is the language of the Anglo Saxons). Shakespeare's Sonnets were published in 1609. Legal texts contain both Latin and French, the handwriting is written by a scribe and difficult to read. We could download it and work collectively? It seems to be a dispute about the ownership of land.
 
Eric Gibson said:
Here you go.....................:)

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Actually Eric, Middle English is the language of Chaucer so before this document with more French vocabulary! There are lots of words we can read as modern English once we decipher the handwriting. Spelling wasn't fixed until after Shakespeare's time, so this makes it tricky for modern eyes. Sorry for the historical linguistics lesson folks. Derek
 
...... is a undecoded word

Heading is:
To the Right Honourable Sir Thomas Audley
…… Lord Chancellor of England

[Agreeing with Lady Penelope's post above]

Complaining … ... Your good lordship your poor …… Thomas Croft …… that /

[Note: "common pleas" are actions between subject and subject, which did not concern the king, I think there will be quite a few legal French or Latin terms and some of these are abbreviated. The case concerns Croft v. Hardwyke ]
 
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Eric Gibson said:
No need to be sorry, I'm a lifelong motor mechanic so if you can't put a spanner on it I'm out of my depth.
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I shouldn't worry Eric, lots of people have problems with spelling, especially nowadays due their reliance on abbreviated text messages. However there is always the 'spell checker'. ;)
 
Radiorails said:
I shouldn't worry Eric, lots of people have problems with spelling, especially nowadays due their reliance on abbreviated text messages. However there is always the 'spell checker'. ;)
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I should say I was laughing only at Eric's wonderful turn of phrase 'if you can't put a spanner on it...'
I suspect that the historical legal language and abbreviations might defeat us. If people can decipher any of this then do post in this thread.
 
PJay said:
Is there anybody who knows of somebody who could translate some old documents and won't charge the earth. I don't need the documents fully translated to to see if there is a dwelling name.

TIA
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Could you take a picture with your phone of the beginning of the first page of the longer document? I'm wondering if this is in legal English too. Are there seals or ribbons at the end. You might have one long document, or the second longer part might be concerned with a different matter entirely.
 
Stokkie said:
Could you take a picture with your phone of the beginning of the first page of the longer document? I'm wondering if this is in legal English too. Are there seals or ribbons at the end. You might have one long document, or the second longer part might be concerned with a different matter entirely.
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I can't take a picture I'm afraid as its from the National Archives
 
Radiorails said:
I shouldn't worry Eric, lots of people have problems with spelling, especially nowadays due their reliance on abbreviated text messages. However there is always the 'spell checker'. ;)
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Oh tell me about it, being dyslexic don't help matters either, all the joys eh!
 
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