My Fathers Home

[wilkesworld]

I have located this from the newly released Census (finally. It seems That the National Archives have done a deal with Find My Past for access to the 1921 Census). Costs £3.50 for a brief look.
Now, call me simple, but could somebody decipher this address for me please. Pointing it out on a map would be a bonus and much appreciated.

Many thanks.
John Wilkes

 

[pjmburns]

I think it is St George's Street. I assume it is this one.

St George's St · Birmingham

Birmingham

www.google.co.uk

 

[wilkesworld]

I think it is St George's Street. I assume it is this one.

St George's St · Birmingham

Birmingham

www.google.co.uk

Many thanks for contacting me.
Like me you went for the easy bit.
It it the bit in front I am having difficulty with.
The Court and House number.

 

[wilkesworld]

I was there in the 1980s (I live in Norwich) and the Coop building was still there (and still is). Almost next door (which I believe is no more) was also a light industry factory which I was told was the local bathhouse. I did go inside to look and the outline of the pipes that carried the water was still there to be seen.
The only other thing that seemed to be original to my fathers time was a single Victorian lamp post (opposite what would have been The Birmingham Arms). My imagination conjured up visions of scruffy kids swinging from a piece of rope tied to it !

 

[MWS]

Many thanks for contacting me.
Like me you went for the easy bit.
It it the bit in front I am having difficulty with.
The Court and House number.

Have you tried matching the people with the ERs to see if that's clearer?

 

[wilkesworld]

Have you tried matching the people with the ERs to see if that's clearer?

Thanks ! I'll take your advice and check it out.
Will get back.
Cheers !!
Arthur was my dad.

 

[pjmburns]

Many thanks for contacting me.
Like me you went for the easy bit.
It it the bit in front I am having difficulty with.
The Court and House number.

11 (ct) Court and House 4 - 4 and H look alike.
Sorry thought it was the street.
If Mike sees this he might be able to supply a map.

 

[wilkesworld]

11 Court and House 4 - 4 and H lol alike.
Sorry thought it was the street.
If Mike sees this he might be able to supply a map.

Many thanks ! Getting a little longer in the tooth and the eyes atre not what they were. Been tracking my family down for some years now but now working on the social history. How did my dads family live ? What was life like for them? Dad never talked about it and the "little stories" are hard to pin down. His sister painted a picture of him sitting on the back stoop shelling peas. Sadly his generation has gone now I have to pick away at whatever I can find to put his life into shape.

That's 4, back of 4 right ?

Again many thanks
John

 

[pjmburns]

The courts are numbered and this house is number 4 and in court 11. Easier if we can get a map. Not all houses in the courts were "back of".
I was just saying it was badly written and hard to tell the 4 and H. I thought it said 44 to start with

 

[Astoness]

it will be house no 4 that was in court no 11...if someone can supply a map it should become clearer

snap jan we posted at the same time

lyn

 

[wilkesworld]

The courts are numbered and this house is number 4 and in court 11. Easier if we can get a map. Not all houses in the courts were "back of".
I was just saying it was badly written and hard to tell the 4 and H. I thought it said 44 to start with

Does this help?
Again I can't read the numbers. This getting old isn't much fun!

 

[wilkesworld]

it will be house no 4 that was in court no 11...if someone can supply a map it should become clearer

snap jan we posted at the same time

lyn

Does this help?
Again I can't read the numbers. This getting old isn't much fun!

 

[pjmburns]

Right idea but that is court 6.
Court 11 is opposite.

 

[MWS]

 

[Astoness]

even with that map i still cant pick out court 11

 

[wilkesworld]

Thanks everybody.
This was from NWS who identifies the Court, Now just the house to do (wink-wink).

I truly appreciate your help !​ ​

 

[pjmburns]

even with that map i still cant pick out court 11

Marked with pink line.

 

[Astoness]

Marked with pink line.

oops lol

 

[MWS]

Thanks everybody.
This was from NWS who identifies the Court, Now just the house to do (wink-wink).

I truly appreciate your help !​ ​

Might just be guess work with the numbers. By the time of the 1950 map when there are numbers, all of the houses on St George's St are gone.

You would think that no 1 would be closest to the street and the entrance to the court which would make the houses on the left no's 1 to 4, 4 being bottom house on the left.

But no evidence for that, and other more knowledgeable members may have personal experience of courts to contradict that.

 

[wilkesworld]

Many thanks for all the great information.
I'll take that as #4
As somebody once said " If I BELIEVE it is #4 then it's #4 (till somebody tells me differently).

Again thanks a lot !

 

[wilkesworld]

Not to "go on" but..... I'm getting further information which you may be able to translate.
The Full Address seems to be 4 Trafalgar Square, St George's Street, Birmingham.
5 Adults. 3 Children in 3 Rooms

 

[pjmburns]

On the 1911 census the listing for St George's Street is

up to 12 and then 46, 47 and 48 followed by court 13. I am left wondering if cts 11 and 12 were known as Trafalgar Square but that is only aguess.

 

[Astoness]

On the 1911 census the listing for St George's Street is
View attachment 167695
up to 12 and then 46, 47 and 48 followed by court 13. I am left wondering if cts 11 and 12 were known as Trafalgar Square but that is only aguess.

jan i think that is a reasonable assumption as many courts had names but were not always marked out on the maps

lyn

 

[wilkesworld]

More.......
The 1921 Census does not mention a name for Court 11 however......
The Census seems to have been filled out by the Head of Household. I heard from my sister today who mention the Census taker seemed illiterate. Duh ! Yes !!
It was filled out in pencil and if you notice John Cattle thought his Grandchildren were his Nieces and Nephews ! He had to amend.

 

[wilkesworld]

Wonder if the was a Waterloo Square or Ladysmith Square (tee-hee)

 

[Astoness]

st georges st was heavily bombed in 1940 below is a list of the injured note that some may not have lived where they died..sadly in the wrong place at the wrong time

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Ashmore	George	19/11/1940	4 St George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Burdon	William	19/11/1940	7 Court, 3 House, St. George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Edwards	Archie	19/11/1940	44 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Johnson	David	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Martin	Margaret	19/11/1940	3/4 St George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Matthews	Fred	19/11/1940	41 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Meers	John	19/11/1940	1/15 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Shaylor	Edward	22/11/1940	St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Wadsworth	Arthur	19/11/1940	10/44 Trafalgar Square, St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View

and a list of those who died...if you click on VIEW it gives us a bit more detail about the people

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Moss	Ellen	20/11/1940	5 St George's Street	50	Civilian	View
Mullins	Edwin	19/11/1940	5 St. George's Street	36	Civilian	View
Tankard	Mary Ann	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street	82	Civilian	View

 

[pjmburns]

More.......
The 1921 Census does not mention a name for Court 11 however......
The Census seems to have been filled out by the Head of Household. I heard from my sister today who mention the Census taker seemed illiterate. Duh ! Yes !!
It was filled out in pencil and if you notice John Cattle thought his Grandchildren were his Nieces and Nephews ! He had to amend.

Tha address you posted first was 11 ct. Unless I need to go to specsavers ( ) i can't see where Trafalgar Square came from. Sorry but haven't bought any 1921 records yet.
Was he at the same address in 1911?

 

[wilkesworld]

st georges st was heavily bombed in 1940 below is a list of the injured note that some may not have lived where they died..sadly in the wrong place at the wrong time

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Ashmore	George	19/11/1940	4 St George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Burdon	William	19/11/1940	7 Court, 3 House, St. George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Edwards	Archie	19/11/1940	44 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Johnson	David	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Martin	Margaret	19/11/1940	3/4 St George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Matthews	Fred	19/11/1940	41 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Meers	John	19/11/1940	1/15 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Shaylor	Edward	22/11/1940	St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Wadsworth	Arthur	19/11/1940	10/44 Trafalgar Square, St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View

and a list of those who died...if you click on VIEW it gives us a bit more detail about the people

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Moss	Ellen	20/11/1940	5 St George's Street	50	Civilian	View
Mullins	Edwin	19/11/1940	5 St. George's Street	36	Civilian	View
Tankard	Mary Ann	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street	82	Civilian	View

Tha address you posted first was 11 ct. Unless I need to go to specsavers ( ) i can't see where Trafalgar Square came from. Sorry but haven't bought any 1921 records yet.
Was he at the same address in 1911?

Tha address you posted first was 11 ct. Unless I need to go to specsavers ( ) i can't see where Trafalgar Square came from. Sorry but haven't bought any 1921 records yet.
Was he at the same address in 1911?

Hi Janice. Trafalgar Square was mentioned in 1911 and on my Grandfather wedding certificate also mentioned it in 1917 but not on the1921 Census. Sadly my Great-Grandfather who had limited schooling filled out the Census Form (in pencil) and listed it as Court 11 House 4. Had they dropped names by then or did Grandad Cattle just not mention it. Looking at the difficulty he had filling out the form I'll go with that.

 

[wilkesworld]

st georges st was heavily bombed in 1940 below is a list of the injured note that some may not have lived where they died..sadly in the wrong place at the wrong time

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Ashmore	George	19/11/1940	4 St George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Burdon	William	19/11/1940	7 Court, 3 House, St. George's Street, Aston		Civilian	View
Edwards	Archie	19/11/1940	44 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Johnson	David	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Martin	Margaret	19/11/1940	3/4 St George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Matthews	Fred	19/11/1940	41 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Meers	John	19/11/1940	1/15 St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Shaylor	Edward	22/11/1940	St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View
Wadsworth	Arthur	19/11/1940	10/44 Trafalgar Square, St. George's Street, Hockley		Civilian	View

and a list of those who died...if you click on VIEW it gives us a bit more detail about the people

Last Name	Forename(s)	Date of Injury	Location of Injury	Age	Civil Defence Status
Moss	Ellen	20/11/1940	5 St George's Street	50	Civilian	View
Mullins	Edwin	19/11/1940	5 St. George's Street	36	Civilian	View
Tankard	Mary Ann	19/11/1940	47 St. George's Street	82	Civilian	View

Terrible times and so sad.
The only consolation I have was with those in The Carpenters Arms at the end on the Street. They may have considered that they were in the RIGHT place at the WRONG time.

 

[Astoness]

sad to say the carpenters arms was also hit injuring 1 person...here are a couple of photos of the damage.the birmingham arms at the other end of the street remained until it was demolished after the 1950s

Shaylor

Edward

19/11/1940

Carpenters Arms, Hospital Street

Civilian

View