Memorial

[O.C.]

I have read somewere that a memorial to workers killed at the BSA is long overdue.........
Wonderful gesture but we cannot look after the memorials we have got in Birmingham, I could start to name them but won't...........we cannot even look after the CWGC graves we have in our cemeteries
..........why do we need another one ? ....on a traffic island ?
The whole idea puzzles me ..........let the ones we have rot and erect new ones........
I should have added no one has championed the causes of our war dead more than me ......
A few years ago ( and I hope you do not mind Avril) I stayed with Avril Williams on the Somme at her place at Auchonvillers (to the troops it was Ocean Villas) she told me the Somme is being swamped with memorials and there is only so many you can take, The place is not a cemetery, and people live here they want memorials erected here but neglect the ones at home,neither of us could understand the logic , I can give you photographic proof ( which I don't really want to do as it might upset some folk)
Ask anyone where the memorial is to the men of Nechells is and they will not be able to tell ya
I put this photo on the forum a few months ago but does anyone care ? and have they ever been ?
Hearts are in the right place but it is all to late..................
When do we stop building monuments to the dead ? I have seen over the last 50 years in factories and offices Bronze Tablets and monuments ripped down and discarded as the years have rolled on. The Western Front Association is trying to record them all but their are thousands that will never be recorded because they have been destroyed.

 

[O.C.]

War memorials vary in style and form, from sculptures to crosses, from bus shelters to hospitals. Whilst many memorials are well maintained, others stand 'at risk' vulnerable to vandalism, theft, weathering and ageing. Regimental memorials are cherished but others, for which no one takes responsibility, are neglected;
War Memorials Trust works for the protection and conservation of the estimated 70,000 war memorials across the country. The charity directly helps through its grant schemes. It also provides advice and guidance on war memorial issues. In 2007 it celebrates its 10th anniversary and has had a significant impact in a short space of time. Already it has helped allocate over £350,000 to more than 500 projects nationwide including £1,500 to repairs on the war memorial clock in Treharris, Caerphilly. But demand continues to outstrip available resources and there are many more deserving and important projects that the Trust could support.
Another project that the Trust has assisted is the restoration of a damaged memorial cross in the churchyard of St Chad's in Kirkby on Merseyside. The war memorial was destroyed 15 years ago and has since lain in storage, in pieces, with only the plinth remaining in situ. Grants from War Memorials Trust and English Heritage supported by local fundraising have enabled the project, costing in excess of £17,000, to return the war memorial to its rightful place at the heart of the community as a symbol of remembrance.
War Memorials Trust also rescues 'at risk' war memorials. A war memorial plaque broken and discarded in a skip that featured in the television series 'Not Forgotten' had been held in storage by the Trust for its protection. It is now being restored and will
be re-homed. The Trust holds war memorials from across the country, some saved from auctions, tips and, even, ebay.
War Memorials Trust exists to protect and conserve war memorials but it cannot do it alone. The Trust relies entirely on voluntary funding such as donations, subscriptions and legacies.
www.warmemorials.org.
If you would like advice or information on a war memorial matter please get in touch on 020 7259 0403.

 

[Bojalu]

Regarding ,Those who lost their lives at the BSA, Are their names not included in the new memorial by Lorezo Quinn by St Martin's Church Birmingham ,for WW2 Civlian War Dead ?

 

[O.C.]

Cannot be sure but they must be

 

[Wendy]

Hi, The casualties from the BSA are included in the memorial by St Martins. I have taken a couple of photo's for local old folk who lost relatives and could not visit.

 

[O.C.]

Thanks Moma P .........so why is another memorial needed ? To waste more money ?

 

[billc]

I Would Rather See This Money Spent On Our History(memorials).than The Crap They Spend It On Now.they Either Knock Our History Down(buildings) Or Get Their Council Workers To Throw Our History(memorials) Into Skips.

 

[O.C.]

If you have read post 2 .......the country is awash with memorials that cannot be maintained .......just take a walk round the local churchyards...
Memorials need charity to survive and not many people dip their hand in their pockets to help and thats a sad fact of life........you only have to take a trip to Dollman St Stores to see some of our memorials hidden away

 

[spooner]

Memorials

I agree with your views entirely, Cromwell. Not only are war memorials neglected, but they get vandalised and even, (as happened in Nuneaton recently), stolen for scrap metal!
There is a general lack of respect for memorials and gravestones, awful vandalism, by the yobs and the 'authorities' with 'health and safety' and other rules.
Last Rememberance Sunday, we visited Witton Cemetary, a bit of a jaunt from where I live. We visited an old family grave that I only found out about a couple of years ago. The only headstone there is a War Graves one to my great uncle, who died from his wounds in 1916, aged 21. A few yards behind it is one of the Memorial Walls to the fallen. My wife and I stood there in silence at 11 o'clock, in front of the family grave, remembering the 4 fallen sons of that family. (the other 3 are remembered on foreign soil.
We couldn't help noticing that the Memorial Wall was deserted, completely devoid of wreaths. No sound of 'The Last Post'. Was everybody having a 'lie in'? Afterwards, we went to the Memorial Wall. The ground was covered with autumn leaves, no wreaths, no poppies.
Do we need more memorials to neglect? I don't think we do either.

 

[O.C.]

Spooner as someone who has attended a lot of Remembrance parades here and in France and Belgium I find folk just don't want to know when it comes to Memorials once the hype has died down.
The Largest donation in this country was for the Memorial to Lady Di .....Millions were spent on it... panels of experts could not agree on what was needed............
Today ask anyone about the Lady Di Memorial fountain which cost millions and was a disaster from the word go ........What a waste of Public Money and what an eyesore

 

[ColinB]

Front page Birmingham News, a story of a police office who has traced the graves of police officers and special constables killed in enemy action.
The Police Federation has given financial support for eight graves .."to be either refurbished or where there was no stone to erect one".
They have already refurbished two graves ,one in Llandrindod Wells another in Elmdon.The remaining graves are in Yardley and Handsworth new Cemetery.

Colin

 

[O.C.]

Another forum member "Samurai" and I spent a few hours in Yardley Cemetery a few weeks ago and was appalled at the state of the graves and just sheer neglect, I took a photo of a WW2 pilot who was KIA Joseph Jenks and tried to tidy his grave but look at the others and this is over three quarters of the cemetery......out of sight ...out of mind and their is no answer to the problem .........the roads are lined with wooded memorial benches for loved ones..........but they are pointless as you cannot sit down on them as they have wire flower holders fixed to them were you sit
The Money that is made out of grief is unbelievable when it could be put to better use in the cemetery.......instead of the mountains of flowers that are dumped daily it would be better spent on the upkeep of the cemetery ........which would make more sense......but it will never happen

 

[Wendy]

As I expect most of you know I have been involved with a cemetery for a few years. I have attended meetings with council and bereavement services. The cemetery suffered a lot of damage to memorials in the name of health and safety as well as the vandals. As Cromwell says the answer is difficult as there is no money available and no one is interested in cemeteries, except if a plastic windmill is removed from a grave or plasic flowers from a bench. Personally I don't understand all this, I would much rather see a nice clean memorial. The general public are not allowed to touch headstones or graves unless they are a family member. Well the problem being, what happens when all the family have gone. I have tried to help people trace graves in the hope some will be tidied up but this is a drop in the ocean. I am glad to say the war screen at Key Hill is visited on 11th of 11th and a wreath is laid but this is only because of family, locals and comrades. I still don't understand why our cemeteries are in the state they are when you visit ones abroad they are beautifully kept. I also agree we don't need any more memorials, the one outside St Martins has all the names of civlians lost in the bombings. Spend the money tidying up headstones even to help families who can't afford to have graves repaired. I was upset last week when an eldely lady told me she couln't get to her grandparents grave at Key Hill cemetery because of Japanese Knott Weed, this has to be removed by specialists.............oh I could go on but I won't.

 

[O.C.]

When I was researching the VC Winners I came across a few who wanted to be cremated as they did not want to leave a memorial behind one such chap did not like what happened to Private George Ravenhill a Birmingham chap born in 1872 who won the VC in the Boer War on 15th Dec. 1899 no on could take away from him the gallant deed he did but years later in 1908 he was convicted of theft and his VC was forfeited……he is in Witton Cemetery with no headstone…….Does anyone care ?
A friend has just sent me some photographs of a VC Monument that was destroyed in a Christchurch graveyard in Welshpool to William Waring VC and got permission to restore it they worked on it for one afternoon a week with no help from anyone all three were in their 80’s but they did it ……..but how long it will stand for is anyones guess.......was it a waste of time and effort ?as no one else was interested

 

[jennyann]

There is going to be a lot of coverage by the CBC in Canada this coming weekend to comemorate the 90th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge and the renovation of the Canadian War Memorial for this Battle. I don't know much about the memorial but it seems that the battlefield memorials in France and other places have, for the most part, been well looked after.

 

[O.C.]

Jennyann, I was at the memorial 2 years ago and their are serious structural problems with it and it is starting to crack up due to the extensive tunnels around the area caving in.......how many millions will it take to put right ?

 

[jennyann]

Crommie... you must have been there at the Vimy Ridge Memorial just before the two year 10 million pound restoration of the Monument began. The whole thing was in bad shape and it has been a long and difficult two years cause of all the damage to the Monument. It is now finished and on Monday, the Queen will reopen the Monument in the 90th Anniversary commemoration. Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper and over a thousand Canadian citizens will be present for the ceremony.

 

[O.C.]

Jennyann, I will be over their next month ..so will take a look on how they handled the cracks as at some points they were an inch wide and being monitored by fixing glass over them and seeing when it shattered to find the rate of movement

 

[O.C.]

Jennyann, Just got back from Vimy Ridge and what a great job they have done, nothing was repaired that was cracked, it all was re-carved and replaced with painstaking accuracy, on the Somme I took over 200 photo's as the weather was glorious so got some downloading to do of all the folks graves I took, I will post the Latest Vimy pics as soon as I have the time, I also was given a pic of the first unveiling of the memorial as soon as it was built which I will let you see as well.....

 

[jennyann]

Crom..I had been thinking about you making the trip to France. It seems that you had some good weather and were able to take many photos of the Memorial at Vimy Ridge.It must have been a very moving experience to see
the Memorial all repaired after your last visit. The CBC here in Canada had very good coverge of the dedication ceremonies when the Queen visited last month. They explained a lot about how the repairs were carried out and how much time and money was involved.
I hope you will post some of the photos and also give a synopsis of your visit
to France. Thanks very much Crom.

 

[O.C.]

Jennyann, The Somme area never ceases to amaze me as you are learning all the while…
Pete my son and his wife’s son Adam came with us as he wanted to see the area because he is writing an article on the Somme for his General Studies at Uni ….
I have stayed at a good number of Bed and breakfast places some were OK and some were pretty rough but by far the best place we have ever stayed at was with two great people
Peter & Sarah Wright
Trones View,
Chemin de Maurepas,
80360 Longueval,
Somme. France
They have got to do the best breakfast in France which kept us going all day and Peters vast library was a joy to behold and they are such wonderful company so we will be going back to stay with them next year and would not dream of going anywhere else now. Their home is a treasure trove as Sarah used to have an antiques shop. Peter has got some authentic Great War Posters, which he let me, copy to put on the forum as well as other rare items …so for me it was like a kid in a toyshop
Building their home they found that the German front line trenches ran right through the living room and on excavating the garden for the building found the remains of two bodies and a lot of artefact's …
Sitting in the back garden with a few beers there is an uninterrupted view of Trones and Bernafray Wood while the front garden gazes straight at Delville Wood
I was saddened by a few things on the Somme by a few people who I think have misguided ideas and are trying to turn the area into a place to make a fast buck…but the least said about them the better……….The visitors center at Vimy Ridge has been well thought out and planned and deserver's praise as does the visitor center at Newfoundland Park and the area they are trying to protect.
The Tommie Bar at Pozieres has tripled in size (sold off half his collection) and Dominique is now charging folk to see his trench and artefact's out in the back and serving uneatable food and I can see he has lost his way and I for one will never go back their and this was not just my opinion but a few of the folk we met it has become the McDonald's of the Area, be interesting to see if he survives another few years…….
Treat the punters well and they will go back …………
On the other hand we had an evening meal at The Calypso at Longueval and I must add it one of the best meals I have had in a long time….and we all though the same….
For folk who were having places built out their to retire all said the help they have received has been tremendous…Albert Museum which is housed in the tunnels under the town of Albert has changed a lot over the years for the better.. and for a completely different contrast Peronne Museum takes some beating but if you can always save these two museums for a rainy day which we did.
Anyone who goes to France has their own favourite area but for me it has to be Givenchy where my father was and following the trench lines from the area he won his M.M. down to the canal and gazing over to the area known as The Brickstacks always stirs my emotions as the area is virtually unspoilt with no buildings so I can trace over the old trench maps and pinpoint everything on them……….and paint a picture in my mind from were I am standing…..

A few pic's of Vimy Ridge Memorial but photo's do not do it justice and I marveled at the skill of the men who did the repair work ..

 

[Wendy]

Thank you once again Cromwell for the wonderful photo's of the memorial at Vimy Ridge it is truly beautiful and I would love to go and see it.

On another subject to gladden the heart I have spoken to my neighbour this morning who was telling me about his loft and spare room clear out. He said it was time to let a few things go, he was glad to find a good home for his great uncles WW1 uniform and medals! including one for bravery. Although he was from Staffordshire his regiment was in Sussex, he asked at the Staffs museum and they put him in touch with the Sussex museum, he then took the articles to them including some paperwork. They showed him where everything was displayed and stored. He said I felt happy to have found a good home for these family treasures, even though they told him one medal was worth about £100 he said it's not about money. He then told me this same uncle was a miner and had mineing documents and medals which he has taken to the museum in Cannock, they were thrilled with them. I said it was a lovely gesture and now many people will enjoy seeing these treasures and with the documents to back up the items. Oh it was so nice to think they would not appear on Ebay!

 

[jennyann]

Cromwell...thanks so much for the description of part of your trip to the
battlefields of the Great War. It certainly makes very interesting reading and I can tell from your writing that this was a very successful trip all round, especially putting up at Mr. and Mrs Wrights place. You have found a gem there no doubt and it sounds really great compared to the other places
that you have stayed in that didn't come up to scratch at all. Somewhere
like this makes so much difference to your trip.

I suppose there are always going to be people who try to make money out
of tragedy such as the fellow that you mention. It really is pathetic and
certainly leaves you with a bad feeling overall given the dreadful things
that happened in those French places during the Great War. It doesn't matter how many books or articles you read on the subject you can hardly imagine the complete and utter carnage that took place in these battles. In more recent times there has been a lot more of this quick money making
type of businesses in connection with battles. I can think of the USA
and in particular some Civil War sites such as Little Bighorn and General Custer, etc.

Your description of the wonderful views around the areas where you were
sound so lovely especially at this time of the year. So glad that your trip was a success G. Thanks for posting about it.

 

[jennyann]

Moma P: I was happy to read that your neighbour found a place for
the soldiers unfirm and memorablia. I imagine a lot of this ends up in the
garbage when attics are cleared out. Thanks for posting this story and
it leaves me with a very good feeling.