McDermott family Nechells and Hockley

[Simon_Fielding]

Hello there

I am researching some relatives of my maternal great grandmother

Thomas McDermott born Ireland 1835

m. Hannah Mansell b. Wellington Shropshire 1847 about 1865

Mary Jane
Ellen Hannah
William Henry
Elizabeth Ann
Agnes Winifred
Edith Norah

family lived at Thimble Mill Lane Nechells - children baptised at St Josephs RC

Thomas dies c.1880

Hannah has children rebaptised at All Saints Hockley - lives Prescott Street

Appears at Warwick Assizes 1883 for child neglect - aquitted

Can't find any record of death or burial...

Simon

 

[pollypops]

Hi Simon - have you checked the passenger lists? In 1881 there is a Samuel Arnold age 25 born Australia lodging with Hannah McDermott. Hannah's child that died in 1883 was illegitimate and was called Mary Arnold McDermott.
Could Hannah have gone to Australia with her 'Lodger'?

 

[G G Jean]

I know a Paul McDermott from Shropshire. He is about fifty six years of age. :strawberry:

 

[Simon_Fielding]

Great advice Polly - will take a look. Will let you know!

Thanks

Simon

Hi Simon - have you checked the passenger lists? In 1881 there is a Samuel Arnold age 25 born Australia lodging with Hannah McDermott. Hannah's child that died in 1883 was illegitimate and was called Mary Arnold McDermott.
Could Hannah have gone to Australia with her 'Lodger'?

 

[pollypops]

Simon - Australia may be a red herring - but worth a look. Have you got all the newspaper articles about the child neglect case?

On family search I can find a Samuel Arnold on the 1871 census born Victoria Australia age 14 born 1857 living Aston with parents Samuel born Aston and Ellen born Birmingham and sister Emily age 19 born Birmingham - so only he is listed born Australia!! So did his parents go to Australia and then come back again?
then on 1861 census a Samuel Arnold age 4 born Australia living Aston listed as boarder - no other names listed with him.
perhaps someone with access to Ancestry or FMP can help.
This seems an interesting story!
Polly

 

[Alberta]

Samuel listed in 1861 as a boarder is with his family as boarderes of George Arnold and his wife Mary in green Lane , Bordesley
James arnold age 30 b. Aston , no trade
Ellen age 33
Emily age 9 b birmingham
Samuel age 4 b Australia
Thomas age 1 b Australia there are 2 deaths of a Thomas Arnold in Aston/Birmingham 1862 and 1865 no age given in those years.

 

[Simon_Fielding]

What a great introduction to the forum! Thanks so much Polly and Alberta

There looks like the right Samuel in Australian Ancestry:

[h=2]Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Samuel Arnold[/h]
[TABLE="class: p_recTable, width: 506"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: p_resultTable, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Name:[/TH]
[TD]Samuel Arnold[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Father's Name:[/TH]
[TD]Samuel Arnold[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Mother's name:[/TH]
[TD]Ellen Wagstaff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Birth Place:[/TH]
[TD]Collingwood, Victoria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Registration Year:[/TH]
[TD]1856[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Registration Place:[/TH]
[TD]Victoria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Registration Number:[/TH]
[TD]3364[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Collingwood is a suburb of Melbourne! I have the Moor St inquest from the Brum Daily Post and details of the Assizes from thr Leamington papers ....am I missing anything?

Mary Jane was Hannah's eldest daughter - married Frederick Barnsley - daughter Harriet m John Heath Winson Green - he killed with the Birmingham Pals on the Somme - their son Charles Frederick b 1911 my Mum's father!

 

[pollypops]

Thanks Alberta - Does Hannah McDermott or Samuel Arnold appear on the 1891 ? Maybe he will lead us to Hannah assuming she is still alive then. She could also be using his name - Hannah Arnold.
I can't find the father of the child mentioned in the newspaper articles in 1883 so perhaps Samuel Arnold had already left Hannah by then.

 

[pollypops]

Hi Simon - sorry I didn't notice you had only just joined the forum. WELCOME to the forum! This is a great forum - we have some very knowledge members on here so you have come to the right place for help on anything connected to Birmingham History.
The Samuel Arnold you and Alberta have found definetly seems to be the one I found on Family Search - hopefully he is the same one that is with Hannah in 1881.
i think I found about 4 or 5 articles - one was about a complaint made about the doctors attitude towards Hannah. I will find them again later today.

 

[Simon_Fielding]

Samuel Ellen Emily seem to be at Bloomsbury Street in 1881:

Ellen dies Aston Jan 1884

Samuel senior in Aston workhouse in 1891!

 

[Simon_Fielding]

Thanks Alberta - Does Hannah McDermott or Samuel Arnold appear on the 1891 ? Maybe he will lead us to Hannah assuming she is still alive then. She could also be using his name - Hannah Arnold.
I can't find the father of the child mentioned in the newspaper articles in 1883 so perhaps Samuel Arnold had already left Hannah by then.

This is the one I have:

from B’ham Daily Post 15th September 1883

PARISH MEDICAL NOTES: A CASE FOR ENQUIRY. Mr. H. Hawkes, the borough coroner opened an inquest at his court, Moor Street, yesterday, on the body of the infant child of Hannah McDermott, widow, living at 23 Prescott Street. Annie Elizabeth Clark, a lodger in the house, said the child was about four months old. Six weeks ago it ceased to take the breast, and three weeks ago it became unwell, and witness took it to the General Hospital. She also took it on the following week, and got medicine for it. A week ago, however, the child became so unwell that she and the mother took it to the parish offices, and got a medical note for it on Dr. Suffield, The note was left at Dr. Suffield's house the same day about a quarter to four o'clock. A young lady whom they saw at Dr. Suffield's told them to wrap up the child and bring it to his house at six o'clock, as the doctor did not attend children so young. At six o'clock, the child was accordingly taken to Dr. Suffield's. After waiting till ten minutes past seven o'clock they saw Dr. Suffield. He seemed to be in a great hurry, and said, "Well, what do you want "- The mother produced the note, and said she had brought the baby for him to see it and he told her to come inside the room. Witness heard through the partially open door that the mother told Dr. Suffield that the child had been taken to the General Hospital, but was getting worse; he said, "What is the use of bringing it to me then if you have been attending the General Hospital I know as much about it as I do." He looked the medicine that had been given the baby, and said he could do nothing better for it, but they were to bring it to the Dispensary on Monday. On Sunday the child died: - Maria Weeway, midwife, who had attended Mrs McDermott when the baby was born, said until it was taken from the breast it was healthy and strong. After which it began to dwindle away. It did not have a feeding bottle, but was only fed with the spoon. The mother had had fifteen children, and only five of them were alive and was given to drink, sometimes. She would drink for a week: A week ago witness said the child was so bad that it needed medical aid, and she told the mother to take it to a doctor. The mother said she had no money and told her to go to Paradise Street and get a parish note. She got the note that same day. The child was then in a dying state, and it got worse and worse up till Sunday. When it died at eight o'clock at night. There was no doctor???? from Thursday up to the time the child died. At this stage the Coroner said it would be necessary to adjourn the inquiry. An adjournment till Monday week, at two, o'clock, was then made.-Mr. Everton (assistant clerk, watched the proceedings on behalf of the Guardians; Mr. Stout (the chairman) was also present.

 

[pollypops]

Simon, this article follows on from the article you have - it is the report of the adjourned inquiry.
Birmingham Daily Post Tuesday 25th September 1883

 

[pollypops]

Here is the article on the conduct of Dr Suffield towards Hannah McDermott and her child.
Birmingham Daily Post Thursday 4th October 1883

 

[pollypops]

From The Birmingham Daily Post Thursday 15th November 1883:
At the opening of the Warwickshire Assizes on the 14th November 1883 at the Crown Court, The Shire Hall, Warwick his Lordship made the following comments to the Jury about the case of Hannah McDermott......

 

[pollypops]

In the Birmingham Daily Post Friday 16th November 1883 it was reported that Hannah McDermott was acquitted of the charge of manslaughter.

 

[Simon_Fielding]

These are absolutley fantastic Polly -

My updates are Hannah's marriage certificate:

She married Thomas McDermott in Birmingham Registry Office on the 31st July 1865, giving her age as 20 and her residence as Summer Lane. Thomas McDermott also of Summer Lane was born in 1835, son of Michael McDermott: family tradition connects the McDermotts with County Roscommon, and Thomas is possibly the Thomas McDermott born 1836 son of Michael McDermott and Bridget Naughton in Kilbride, County Roscommon.

and Thomas's death:

Thomas McDermott died on the 9th January 1880 at the Queen’s Hospital, Bath Row; he was 44, and a ‘railway servant’. The cause of death is given as ‘aortic aneurism / spasm of glottis / 5 hours’. The informant is his sister in law Ann Mansell of 16 Russell Place Great Russell Street.
Still searching for Hannah...!