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Marriage Look up 1779 please, Fowler Dickins

  • Thread starter Thread starter Caliandris
  • Start date Start date
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Caliandris

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Please could I have a look up for the marriage of Fowler Dickins on 12 September 1779 at St Martin's Birmingham?

I am searching for the birth and marriage of my four greats grandfather, John Dickins, who was born in 1772 or 3, and I think the family may have moved from Church Preen to St Martin's Birmingham around 1760-1775. Any information for Fowler Dickins (brother of John's fatther) marriage would be very gratefully received.

Thank you!
Fee
 
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Fee - I am sure you have already played with Pilot, but just in case it suggests the following may have some connection:

Fowler Dicken baptised 23 Jun 1749 in Church Preen Shropshire to Richard & Ann https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_951706172&pn=p1

Married to Mary Davis 12 Sep 1779 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_850044737&pn=p4

Children:
Ann Dickins baptised 16 Apr 1781 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_890352201&pn=p2
Mary Dickin Baptised 17 Mar 1783 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_890352525&pn=p2
 
The only John Dicken/Dickins of Richard & Ann that Pilot has (which is by no means exclusive) is 30 years later in 17 Oct 1779 in Sulhampstead Abbots in Berkshire. While possible this seems unlikely with the same parents - would need some more info on John and family to check further
 
Aidan said:
Fee - I am sure you have already played with Pilot, but just in case it suggests the following may have some connection:

Fowler Dicken baptised 23 Jun 1749 in Church Preen Shropshire to Richard & Ann https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_951706172&pn=p1

Married to Mary Davis 12 Sep 1779 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_850044737&pn=p4

Children:
Ann Dickins baptised 16 Apr 1781 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_890352201&pn=p2
Mary Dickin Baptised 17 Mar 1783 St Martin's https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_890352525&pn=p2
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for this. Though I have often used Family Search, I wasn't aware of the Pilot... it's looking great, although as usual John Dickins isn't where he should be.

The Fowler Dickins birth you found is the same individual, and the right family. Unfortunately, according to the person who transcribed the registers for printing in the Phillimore series, Church Preen registers were very poorly maintained in the 18th century, and there are many gaps and tearings out. Unfortunately John Dickins born 1737 is one of the baptisms which is missing from the record.

His father, Richard Dickins, was the last at Church Preen, and the family disappear for a bit before Fowler Dickins turns up in Birmingham. I have been searching for the son of John Dickins, another John Dickins, for over 20 years. I know a LOT about him - which regiments he served in, where he was for the census in 1841, where he died, who he married, who all his children are... but I haven't located his birthplace yet. When I went to the national archives to search for information on his army career, there was ALWAYS a gap where his information should be... either the specific year or the specific name was missing from the record. It's very frustrating!

JOhn Dickins was described as "of St Martins, Birmingham" in the Pallots Marriages, in 1811 when he married at Castle Church. His uncle is clearly married and has his children in the parish of St Martins, and so I am hoping there might be a bit more information in the full record for Fowler's marriage... anything that will help me to track down the birth of John Dickins jnr!

I really appreciate you having taking the trouble to post the details of the Pilot results, and I shall certainly be doing a few searches of my own. Thank you!

I keep hoping that if I collect all the peripheral information from the family that one day, if I am lucky, I will track him down.
 
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the marriage of fowler dickins to mary davis is correct on 12 sep 1779. they were bachelor and spinster. the only extra info is the witnesses who were william and jane pearce. they all signed their names too which was quite unusual.
 
Thank you so much Shera, any extra information is a bonus! I've discovered a lot about that Dickins of Church Preen in the course of my researches. They were pretty well off in the 16th and 17th centuries, but seem to have lost their money in the 18th, although I think they were still pretty well educated.
bws
Fee

ETA PS I am going to Birmingham at the end of September, to see what else I can find in the archives. Are the records of St Martin's available somewhere for consultation in the archives? Thanks!
 
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Are you sure about the birth year of John being 1772/3? a marriage of 1811 would make a birth of around 1790 more likely (of which there are a few likely candidatesin Worcester, Warks & Shopshire) unless of course it was a second marriage or he was a late bloomer! Just want to make sure you are not missing a generation and that his father was definitely John b1737
 
Hi there,
Yes, I *think* he was married twice. The birthdate is definite because I have his death certificate. He was aged 78 in March 1851, when he died in Meertown, Forton, Staffordshire.

John Dickins was born around 1772 and was appointed cornet in the 1st Fencible Cavalry on 23 January 1798 and then cornet in the 15th Light Dragoons on 6 May, 1800. He became a lieutenant on June 15th 1801 and then was placed on half pay on the reduction of the army in 1802. On 17 September 1803 he was once again appointed lieutenant in the 15th Light Dragoons. On 3 December 1806 he was appointed captain in the 7th Garrison Battalion and then captain in the 90th Foot in February, 1808. On the reduction of the army in 1818 he was placed on half pay. He finally retired from the army on February 1827. I have been to Kew to look at the army records, but the ones I want are missing, apart from his listing in the various Army lists.

It is possible that he was married and had a first son, Henry Fowler Dickins, in 1807 in Colchester. According to Family Search, this son was baptised in St John's Deritend in October 1807... but there is also a later Henry Fowler Dickins baptised in St John Deritend, and so I do not know if the 1807 Henry Fowler is the son of a relative, the son of John Dickins by his first wife, or.... Colchester was an army town, so it is possible.... The Fowler Family was an important alliance for the Dickins family, and so far (with the exception of the one in Colchester) all the Fowler Dickinses, where Fowler is used as a first or second name, have been related to the family. It does seem a bit of a coincidence that the Henry Fowler Dickins who was born in Colchester should have been baptised in St John Deritend, but I haven't seen the original entry in the records - that's part of my reason for going to Birmingham to look at the records for St John's.

There is a section in the history of Church Preen, about this family. It was written at the end of the 19th century by Arthur Sparrow, who bought the Manor of Preen from the person who bought the Manor of Preen from the creditors of an earlier John Dickins in the early 1700s. He was a local historian and knew the Dickins family, as he was the lawyer for Robert Archibald Dickins's will, the elder brother of my George Dickins. However, he described John Dickins as "John Dickins RN" which was quite wrong - he was an army captain not a naval one. He said that John Dickins was married twice and had a large number of surviving children, but I distrust nearly everything he says because he got the RN thing wrong. I am currently reliant on him for the information that John Dickins's father is John Dickins, born 1737.

As far as I know, Richard Dickins, father of John Dickins b 1737, was buried in 1764 at Preen and was the last of the Dickins family to live at Church Preen, so I have a gap of 50 years really, from the death of Richard Dickins, to the second marriage of John Dickins b 1772, where I don't know where the family calls home, apart from Fowler Dickins's Marriage in St Martins.

John Dickins married Ann Campbell at Castle Church, Stafford in 1811. In Pallot's index he is of St Martin's, Birmingham, but the eldest children of this marriage were all baptised at St John's Deritend. The later children were baptised at Trysull, and were born at Woodford Grange.

My great great great grandfather was his youngest son, George Dickins, born at Woodford Grange, Trysull in 1824. John Dickins was at Woodford Grange, Trysull for the 1841 census (Woodford appears twice in the census, as part of Trysull and as Woodford Grange ex-parochial). He left the farm sometime between 1841 and 1851 and went to live at Meretown, Forton with his wife Ann and a number of his younger daughters, and it was there he died. His widow and daughters stayed on farming in Mereton for some years after his death.

There are a lot of mysteries associated with this family. It has taken me a lot of research to get as close to making a link as I have, and I honestly do think that they are related, but I would feel happier about it if I found the birth of John Dickins. The Dickins family in general had links with Shropshire, Worcestershire, Staffordshire and Buckinghamshire, but I haven't so far located a birth that was likely to be my ancestor, usually because the father isn't John.

I know a LOT about the Dickins family of Church Preen and beyond. I think probably my next stp after visiting Birmingham will have to be to try to track down the manorial records for Church Preen.
Thank you so much for your interest :-).
bws
Fee
 
Pilot does show Henry Fowler Dickins born 19 Jul 1807 baptised Oct 1807 in St John Deritend https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31626&p=321405#post321405 to John & Ann https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473014&r=r_949194322&pn=p1

He married Martha Whitehouse in St Thomas Dudley on 08 Feb 1834 https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_855668825&pn=p4

His birth predates the marriage of John & Ann you mention in Castle Church Staffordshire in 1811 but that is not particularly unusual but could be a warning https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_859444158&pn=p4

I am sure with persistence you will find more clues to John
 
Thank you so much for your time and assistance. It always re-energises me when I revisit the information to explain my queries. I was thinking that the 1807 Henry Fowler Dickins might have been from the first marriage? But I will have on keep on looking!
bws
Fee
 
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