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Leather Hall New Street
- Thread starter loisand
- Start date
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Whilst doing a pile on Brum Prisons, I came across Will Hutton's take on the old Welch Cross and it's role as a hell hole....complete with Stocks etc.....this is what he wrote:
After the fall of the de Bermingham family, one of the lower rooms of the Leather Hall in New Street was used as a prison; "but," says Hutton, "about the year 1728, while men slept an enemy came, a private agent to the lord of the manor, and erased the Leather Hall and the Dungeon, erected three houses on the spot, and received their rents till 1776, when the town purchased them for £500, to open the way."
Up to this time the only entrance to New Street from the High Town had been through a narrow passage, similar to that at the entrance to Castle Street. In the days of the Leather Hall it acquired (from the use to which the basement had been put) the name of the Dungeon Entry, and this name remained for many years after the building of the houses in place of the old hall.
From 1728 to 1733, the town had no other place of detention for offenders, except a dry cellar, belonging to a house opposite the site of the demolished Leather Hall.....
Leather Hall? Entrance to New Street via a narrow Passage ....and an Arched gateway (according to Showell) ????.......Que?
Anyone help with this please......Leather Hall is a complete mystery to this lad.....and never heard or seen anything on the Arched Gateway to New Street.
Is it me? Again..?
After the fall of the de Bermingham family, one of the lower rooms of the Leather Hall in New Street was used as a prison; "but," says Hutton, "about the year 1728, while men slept an enemy came, a private agent to the lord of the manor, and erased the Leather Hall and the Dungeon, erected three houses on the spot, and received their rents till 1776, when the town purchased them for £500, to open the way."
Up to this time the only entrance to New Street from the High Town had been through a narrow passage, similar to that at the entrance to Castle Street. In the days of the Leather Hall it acquired (from the use to which the basement had been put) the name of the Dungeon Entry, and this name remained for many years after the building of the houses in place of the old hall.
From 1728 to 1733, the town had no other place of detention for offenders, except a dry cellar, belonging to a house opposite the site of the demolished Leather Hall.....
Leather Hall? Entrance to New Street via a narrow Passage ....and an Arched gateway (according to Showell) ????.......Que?
Anyone help with this please......Leather Hall is a complete mystery to this lad.....and never heard or seen anything on the Arched Gateway to New Street.
Is it me? Again..?
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Dennis
I came across a couple of references to Leather Hall, but other than it was a premises used by leather sealers with Manorial appointments who's job I believe it was to certify that hides were fit for sale. There wasn't a lot more that I could find with a quick look other than that it was situated at the east end of New Street.
As for an arch and the restricted access to new Street, this 1553 map of the Bull Ring, High Street & New Street show a toll booth in the middle of New Street, but no archway, but perhaps the entrance to New Street was a covered way?
Sorry I can't be of more help.
I came across a couple of references to Leather Hall, but other than it was a premises used by leather sealers with Manorial appointments who's job I believe it was to certify that hides were fit for sale. There wasn't a lot more that I could find with a quick look other than that it was situated at the east end of New Street.
As for an arch and the restricted access to new Street, this 1553 map of the Bull Ring, High Street & New Street show a toll booth in the middle of New Street, but no archway, but perhaps the entrance to New Street was a covered way?
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Last edited:
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Cheers Phil....you can see this Toll Booth thingy on Bernard Sleigh's map circa 1730.....but no archway....maybe he'd had a few sherberts the day he penned this?
Dennis & Phil
You should consider that neither the Bernard Sleigh effort or the suggested 1553 map were penned anywhere near the time. Sleigh would have relied on general dewscriptions of the time, and the other map was constructed in the 19th century from a written description from that time.
You should consider that neither the Bernard Sleigh effort or the suggested 1553 map were penned anywhere near the time. Sleigh would have relied on general dewscriptions of the time, and the other map was constructed in the 19th century from a written description from that time.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Phil
Gone, but not forgotten.
Dennis
Another map showing the toll house at the east end of New Street , this one was produced in the 19th century by Joseph Hill and is supposedly what Birmingham looked like in 1553. You can see that in this one that the footprint of the toll booth is much larger and in fact narrows the access to New Street quite considerably this opening in my opinion could easily been a covered way. Still no sign or mention of Leather Hall. There again as Mike says these maps produced at much later dates were only conjecture.
Another map showing the toll house at the east end of New Street , this one was produced in the 19th century by Joseph Hill and is supposedly what Birmingham looked like in 1553. You can see that in this one that the footprint of the toll booth is much larger and in fact narrows the access to New Street quite considerably this opening in my opinion could easily been a covered way. Still no sign or mention of Leather Hall. There again as Mike says these maps produced at much later dates were only conjecture.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Thanks once more for your help Lads. I guess we’ll never know for sure, but your guess Phil is my best bet too.... a narrow passage into old New Street by the side of the Toll Booth, and no drawings of Leather Hall ... I can live with it. Regards to all.....
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Have done, but no luck....just as in your post clip....thanks anyway...
rosie
brummie
I have been given an old book about Birmingham history, The Making of Birmingham by Robert .K. Dent. Printed 1894.
I'm not able to type the whole passage but it does say,
The successor of the "Old Gild Hall" namely the "Tolbooth" (only one L) or "Town Hall" was afterwards known as "The Leather Hall".
I believe this means that the Gild Hall on the old 1553 map is what became the Leather Hall.
rosie.
I'm not able to type the whole passage but it does say,
The successor of the "Old Gild Hall" namely the "Tolbooth" (only one L) or "Town Hall" was afterwards known as "The Leather Hall".
I believe this means that the Gild Hall on the old 1553 map is what became the Leather Hall.
rosie.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Well. That’s a step forward. I can live with that! Cheers.
Dennis Williams
Gone but not forgotten
Brilliant stuff Pedrocut...Many thanks...