Harbourne, thank you for that!! I have not found any siblings to joseph James Larden born abt 1805-11, he married 3 times, lucky for me, i got last marriage cert for the 1850s, and it says his father was same name as him, a clerk, curate of Halesowen!! But no trace of them to be found!! Joseph was married 3 times at St philips,in 1827, and 33 and 58, i have the the first two parish extracts, no clues there.thank you for looking for me!!