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Joyce family before 1913

H

Hobbsy

proper brummie kid
I'm looking for information on Catherine Joyce, daughter of Edward Joyce. She seems to have been born in 1883, and married John William Veness (known as William) on 1st December 1903. She lived at 8 back of 68 Allcock Street Deritend - from at least 1913 until she died, on 24th January 1958. Marriage and Death certificates suggest she was born in 1882/1883, and if this is correct she probably wasn't born in Birmingham. Her marriage certificate merely gives an address as 'St Gabriel's Parish' at time of marriage. I've found no obvious trace of her on either the 1891 or 1901 Census. Can anyone suggest any lines of enquiry on this? With the help of you good folk on this forum, I've found out plenty on her children and her husband's family, but I've still got little on Catherine! All the best. Hobbsy.
 
can you give me more information 1.what was the father name ***** Veness on the marriage certificate 2. what was the both fathers jobs 3 do you know of Williams death date
 
Any Help?

1901 RG13/ 2846 folio 116 page 23 Birmingham Warwickshire

Marshall Street 7 court 8
Thomas Upton head age 47 single born Birmingham Warwickshire Lapidary
Ellen Boulton boarder single age 37 born Stour on the Wold
Edward Joyce boarder age 48 born London hard to read I think it is widow occupation Slater
Edward Joyce son age 14 born Birmingham Warwickshire

Pam
 
:angel: Hobbsy
Not sure if you have these, or even if they are your family, but just in case:

1891 Census
134,1 House.11 Court Leopold St,1,Benjamin Joyce,Head,M,40,,Packer In Merchants Whse,,Guildford Surrey,,
,,,Rose Joyce,Wife,M,,32,,,Southampton Hampshire,,
,,,Catherine A Joyce,Dau,S,,20,Whse Girl,Employed,Guildford Surrey,,
,,,Elizabeth A Joyce,Dau,S,,6,Scholar,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Alfred W Joyce,Son,S,2,,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Sarah A Cox,Lodger,S,,21,Paper Box Maker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,

7/10/1862 JOYCE 28u Thorpe St, Mary Joyce in 100th yr after few days illness

Boat upset at Kirby's Pools, whereby one Lawrence Joyce was drowned, May
17, 1875.

Chris :angel:
 
Thank you very much for these responses - I hadn't found any of these so I will follow them up. In answer to John's questions: 1 On the marriage certificate, the father of John William Veness is listed as William John Veness - the father appears on the 1881 and 1891 Census as John, and is probably John Bacon Veness born in Worcester in 1848. 2. Edward Joyce's occupation is listed as 'Corporation Labourer', and William John Veness's occupation is listed as 'Labourer'. 3. I have the death certificate for John 'William' Veness - he died 3rd March 1941, and his address is listed as 8 Back of 68 Allcock Street. Best Wishes, Hobbsy.
 
there was a St Gabriels in Pickford street west side of Barn street Deritend (bombed in 1941 and closed 1945 it was built in 1869), which is close to the church could this church have been a catholic church I will have a look in one of my old books
 
just checked it out it was church of England but it was right in the middle of Deritend perhaps the Birmingham central library as the parish records which could be search if you live local if not the library would check it out for you, they did one for me including a letter and a scanned copy it cost me £25
 
:angel: Hi Hobbsy, If you go to this link:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk
You can search a number of Joyce family records for Birmingham and Aston.

One I found interesting was Joyce Lawrence marring a Smith Rebecca June quarter Birmingham 1912   Ref 6d 17. Also checked this on 1837online. Could this be another link to your 'Veness/Smith' family too ?

Chris :angel:
 
Once again, thank you very much to John and Pomgolian on this - I will have a look at these this afternoon. I am going to order some maps of the area from the Godfrey Maps website. My wife and all her family are from Birmingham but I'm not, so I don't really know the area well - although we visit relatives in Birmingham quite frequently. We live in Sussex now, and we need to visit Birmingham soon to have a look around the library, amongst other things!
 
Well I have found Catherine’s address area it is were I said
Ecclesiastical parish St Gabriel
County borough Birmingham
Ward St Bartholomew
Parliamentary borough Bordesley
In a nut shell Deritend
 
Thanks for that John - it certainly narrows down the location, which I'm very grateful for! Am currently looking on FreeBMD etc for Joyces!!
 
can you give me the reference data for the 1881 census and the 1891 were you found catherine do you known catherines mom's name ?
 
Hello John. Alas I haven't been able to find any obvious reference to Catherine or her family in the 1891 or 1901 Censuses. If the information on the various certificates are correct she was born in 1883, and there are 6 or 7 Catherine Joyce's that this could be - none born in Birmingham. Also I don't know the name of Catherine's mum. Of course it's possible that Catherine is her second name, and Edward is his middle name - almost a whole generation of Veness's used their second name as their main name! This makes it more difficult to find her on the indexes and censuses, etc. All the best. Hobbsy.
 
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