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JOSEPH TURNER and MARY CANE or CARL...

N

NIGEL TURNER

knowlegable brummie
Good evening everyone, after trying numerous ways, I ve so far , not got any further...Im hoping to see if I can get any more info in the named above as they would be my GGG Grandparents, their son was JOHN PATRICK TURNER dob DEC 1893....Id love to know if they were Birmingham or Scottish born ..thank you
 
All the chidren seem to have been registerd with mmn Carl. Thomas (born 1911) was a twin but the other boy (Albert) died soon after birth. If the 1911 census entry is rght Mary had 17 children of whom 10 died. So sad.

Jospeh Turner married Mary Carl in 1887.
 
pjmburns said:
All the chidren seem to have been registerd with mmn Carl. Thomas (born 1911) was a twin but the other boy (Albert) died soon after birth. If the 1911 census entry is rght Mary had 17 children of whom 10 died. So sad.
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Thomas was reg. Mar 1911 and Albert Dec 1911.

Making 18 in total and all registered, which I think is the most I've seen for one couple.
 
I only noticed because I was looking at freebmd rather than GRO.

There's something not straightforward about Mary, there doesn't appear to be any mention of a Mary Carl prior to her marriage. There's also marriages for a Catherine Carl and a John Carl about the same time and they appear to be missing as well.
 
pjmburns said:
All the chidren seem to have been registerd with mmn Carl. Thomas (born 1911) was a twin but the other boy (Albert) died soon after birth. If the 1911 census entry is rght Mary had 17 children of whom 10 died. So sad.

Jospeh Turner married Mary Carl in 1887.
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oh the poor woman..to have 18 children born alive and only 7 still living is awful

lyn
 
I found a Mary Carl born in Scotland in Neilston, Renfrewshire in 1868 not sure if this was your Mary Carl. But it could be the Scottish connection. Her Parents were Thomas Carl and Mary (nee Mallie)
 
Janet Hunt said:
I found a Mary Carl born in Scotland in Neilston, Renfrewshire in 1868 not sure if this was your Mary Carl. But it could be the Scottish connection. Her Parents were Thomas Carl and Mary (nee Mallie)
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Thank you So much for this Janet, as it may be the link im looking for....for some strange reason I can t seem to access the 1901 or 1911 censuses, about an family names, just shows up as no response etc...even looked at free bmd again, nothing , so its quite frustrating for me, im lead to believe most of my family served with the BLACK WATCH and understand that there must be a Scottish connection to do that....just wish I could get access to find out a little more on my family and also possible links in getting info.....Thanks again for helping me
 
are you trying to access the 1901 and 1911 on ancestry...if so it seems odd as post 3 says janice can

lyn
 
Astoness said:
are you trying to access the 1901 and 1911 on ancestry...if so it seems odd as post 3 says janice can

lyn
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Afternoon Lyn, hope you re well...Yes, I ve been trying to get into the census, but it just keeps loading up onto other sections, no joy at all, and with Janice getting into it , I gave another try, again nothing, very frustrating indeed...luckily I ve gained some more knowledge from here via members which I really do appreciate, just wish I could get into the site itself for the census
 
hi nigel yes thanks very well....it must be so annoying for you...i know this is a silly question but i take it you are subscribed to ancestry ? if so i cant think what the problem is...maybe you should message them as i think you can if you have a problem...just a thought

lyn
 
I hope this helps and is the right family but 1901 is a poor scan and hard to read. (Full pages are too large to upload.)
1901 address 1 court 10 house New Summer Street
1911 adddress 69 New Summer Street
 

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  • 1911 Turner clip.JPG
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Janet Hunt said:
I found a Mary Carl born in Scotland in Neilston, Renfrewshire in 1868 not sure if this was your Mary Carl. But it could be the Scottish connection. Her Parents were Thomas Carl and Mary (nee Mallie)
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Looks as If both Thomas and Mary came from Ireland according to the census transcripts.

A further search finds them on later censuses as Carroll. Mary Maillie/Carroll later in a mental asylum. Seems also to be a younger daughter called Maria.
 
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Astoness said:
hi nigel yes thanks very well....it must be so annoying for you...i know this is a silly question but i take it you are subscribed to ancestry ? if so i cant think what the problem is...maybe you should message them as i think you can if you have a problem...just a thought

lyn
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Yes, I ll give them a message and see what can be done....Thanks again
 
NIGEL TURNER said:
Thanks again Janice, as this also makes sense to me, as in conversation many years ago Ireland was mentioned, also why the Lamonts Clan in Scotland was mentioned
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The Scotland census is only on Ancestry as transcript so I can't see the actual details .
 
There are a number of 'Carl' marriages from 1877 to 1890 in Bham, including Ann 1877, Catherine 1886, Mary 1888 and John 1890.

From the 1881 census Ann (Meakin) was possibly born 1858 and from the 1891 census John was born 1859 & Mary 1868.

On the 1871 census there are a Richard and Mary Cahill living in Bham with 5 children - Ann, John, Richard, Catherine and Mary - and the ages for the 3 mentioned matching.

So, I wonder if this is the family, with the name variation coming about due to a misunderstanding of the accent.
 
Probably listed as Casell in 1861 with another daughter, Ellen b1854.

Richard Cahill married Mary McKernes in 1852 and Ellen's birth is reg. 1854 as Carrall with mmn as McCarns.

Lots of name variations, can't see the other births.
 
Agree, the confirmation of Mary's marriage is needed but...

There are marriage records for two of Mary's possible siblings - John & Catherine - on findmypast under England Roman Catholic Marriages at St Michael, Moor St. There is a space for the spouses name for a search on these records but not father, however they still both appear when entering Richard in Optional Keywords, whilst they don't for other names.

A little convoluted as I can't see the scans but this appears to tie the Carl name to the Cahill/Casell records.

Also there is a death reg. for Mary's possible brother - Richard - in 1880 listed as Carl which matches the age of the Richard Casell in 1871.
 
You probably know but even for Catholic marriage (records will be at St Chad's but you have to go to search) the civil certificate will contain a Father's name.
As for Cahill said with an accent you can see how it was written as Carl.
 
pjmburns said:
You probably know but even for Catholic marriage (records will be at St Chad's but you have to go to search) the civil certificate will contain a Father's name.
As for Cahill said with an accent you can see how it was written as Carl.
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i also see that jan but to have all of those children (think it was 18) down as mmn carl seems to me to be quite a few errors

lyn
 
I don't think we found 18 birth reg. Those children living were reg mmn Carl. We need to find out Mary's Father's name to see if any of the people found might be right. Also look at witnesses on marriage cert.
 
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