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jones sarah

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
hi guys ;
i was wondering whether or not some one could spare a free moment of there time i am trying to pin point a sarah jones
and any other person whom may be lodging with them at this address i beleive her married name was a jelf nee jones ;
at number 12 court great lister sreet aston, birmingham 6 ;the year was november 18 64 father proffession was a gun barell grinder ;
once again i thank you all for your time in reading this thread , many thanks astonian ;;
 
Re: sarah jones

Hi Astonian,
is there another number before or after 12 court ? As far as I know there is usually a house number.
also, would Sarah have been Jones or Jelf at that time and do you have her Fathers name
 
Re: sarah jones

hi lindy
to be honest i do not know of the father only e was a gun grinder ; at the whole address was definately 12 the court ;
i presumed that would have been the house number a i beleive there is a family connections i have a signiture of this lady and it loks simular to another family member i used to have ; i am not to sure to look at it whether or not jelf or jones first ;
thats why i was curious to find out whom was living there in grt lister street ;i hope you canfind out for me
once again linds thanks for your time on this one ; astonian;;
 
Re: sarah jones

Court 12 is entered between nos 47 & 48 Gt Lister st. It is shown on the map below, the four houses in red. The 1861 census does not list a jones or Jelf in th ecourt, though there is a gun barrel maker (William Wheeler with son Frederick , gun barrel maker also and daughter Mary, tohether with a glass blower lodger , Edward Daniels). Of course it may likely be very different a few years later.

map_c1905_gt_lister_st_court_12.jpg
 
I found a Francis Jones, Labourer, at 48 Gt Lister Street in the 1862 Corporation Directory for Birmingham and its Environs, which could possibly tie in with Mikes map of 47 & 48 and court 12.
There was also a Sarah JELPHS, mangle keeper, but she was at 16 Brearley Street.
I will have to do a manual search for Gt Lister in the census of 1871 because it isnt coming up on Address Search.
 
Francis listed himself as a brewer in the 1861 census, so , depending on how long the Corporation directory took to compile, he either lost his job, got a better one, or, perhaps more likely, was a little hopeful in his description. in 1871 he describes himself as a scavenger, (while his wife is a Suckshop keeper ! - the S is exactly the same in "scavenger " as "suckshop"). Again there is no Jones or Jelf in court 12
 
Further to Mikes findings ( I see what you mean about the 'suckshop' Mike) I found a marriage for a Sarah Jones to a George JELFFS in 1860, 2nd 1/4, Aston, Volume 6d Page 309.
Found them in Phillips Street in 1871, but I have to go to work now so I will look for 1861 later unless someone else can have a look beforehand
 
Hi Astonian and Lindyloo
George Jelffs and Sarah Jelffs living at 6 back of 71 Cromwell Street in 1861.Both born 1840 birmingham and George's occupation is .........Gun Barrel Grinder.
By 1871 they are living in Sloanes Buildings,Phillips Street,Aston.George's occupation remains the same and they have 4 children;Emily 10,George 6,Sarah A 4 and Henry 1.
1881 sees them lose the 2nd "f" and Sarah (enumerated as married) is living at 48 Great Lister Street,(no sign of George senior) with her mother Martha Jones aged 60,a widow, and Ginger Beer shop keeper.
Sarah gives her occupation as paper sorter at paper mill.
George junior gives an occupation as gun barrel borer and Sarah junior is a domestic servant.
There are an additional 2 children, Arthur aged 6 and Martha aged 3.
There is the death of a George Jelfs in 1883
Deaths Mar 1883
George JELFS aged 42 Aston 6d 262
Marriages Mar 1886
John GROVES Aston 6d 356
Sarah Jellfs Aston 6d 356

1891 at 48 Great Lister Street
Martha JONES, Head Widow aged 69 born 1822 West Bromwich, Hucksters Shop
John GROVES, Son In Law Married aged 54 born 1837 Birmingham, File Cutter
Sarah GROVES, Daughter aged 47 born 1844 Birmingham, Retired Gun Barrel Borer
Henry JELF, Grandson aged 20 born 1871 Birmingham, Gun Barrel Borer
Arthur JELF, Grandson aged 16 born 1875 Birmingham, Machinist Pin & Rivet
 
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Brilliant info there ladylinda :adoration:
Ive just found Sarah and her parents, Francis and Martha in the 1841, 51 and 61 census all in Great Lister Street. Francis was a Brewer on them all.

Not sure if this is relevent Astonian, but in 1861 Francis and Martha had a Boarder by the name of George Smith, a 33 year old Widower, occupation Blacksmith, but he was from what looks to be, Hornsbury, Lincs.
 
hi lindand mike ;
many thanks to you both in giving me the time and the valued info;
I have just come in from brum from a funeral today at yardley crem and i have just logged on to the forum ;
I have just peeled my eyes down the listing ;so i have not had chance to read proper and intake the valued info ;
but i have got to dash out and take the dutches to reddich for line dancing ;but i will only be dropping her tonight ; her friend will drop her back home late tonight ; so there for i will be straight back about an hour and half and i will try and put my hands on some info ; i have
regarding the info i have got and i will copy my end to say whats on it ;so around 8;30 i should be back on site i am feeling rather estatic
of what you have given me and done for me . thanks a million guys i will speak later this evening ; astonian ;alan ;
 
hi linda and mike ;
i have been given a photo copy of a birth certif; of george william jelff born nov; 13 th 1864
it states that george jelffs is the father of the child and it states that sarah jelffs is formely sarah jones is the mother to george william jelf
and it just states 12 court grt lister street aston;
it was signed and dated twenty third of nov; 1864; the registra was e t goodall 1864;
that is all i have got at the moment ;but i do have a large picture[ photo copy of george william jelf and a friend whom we do not know
and one of his brothers and friends out side the banna ovens in the old jamica row around the thirtys as to what i can see
i do beleive at one time martha lived in pugh rd off vicarage rd around in the fortys but it could be another martha
whom was steph sister to a lady called leagh in cromell square aston on the lichfield rd ;
i would like to say a big thank you to you both ;hoping that this enlighten me more ; best wishes astonian ;; alan ;;
 
Hi Astonian, It would seem that all the information found by Mike, Ladylinda and myself, fits with your certificate.
Martha Jones, (Sarah's Mother) was still at 48 Gt Lister Street in 1901 and on the census, the family listed below them are at 2 House 12 Court.
Strangely though also with Martha is daughter "Jane" Groves, widow and Arthur Jelf aged 25, listed as son. Jane may have possibly been Sarah's middle name.
I think Martha Jones died in later in 1901. I can't find a death for Sarahs daughter Martha, but she isnt with Sarah on the 1891. There is a possible marriage for Martha Jelffs if she was still alive, which was to a John Alfred White and they were to be found at Scholefield Street, Nechells in the 1911, but that may just be complicating things.
Hope this has helped with your original query
 
1911 at 48 Great Lister Street sees Arthur Jelf aged 36 and his mother listed as Mrs Groves aged 71.Arthur is a carter for the Corporation.

Marriages Mar 1898
Martha Jelffs Aston 6d 404
John Alfred White Aston 6d 404
They lived at 114 Scholefield Street until about 1950.
 
GOOD Morning ladylinda and mike ;
thank you very much to you both for your valued time you have given me and the information
it seems that this george william was a player if you get my expression; i beleive arther had a couple of shops art one time during i think around the war years some where in in rocky lane and tne nechells area ; i do beleive he was at rocky lane around the aston cross area ;
cou;ld you tell me what was a carter for the corporation please ; many thanks alan ; astonian;
 
A carter may have been a litter collector or dustman,I think.
There was an Arthur and Alice A Jelf (nee Truman) who lived at 46 Fern Road,Erdington,who were also listed at 4 Summer Lane,103 Spring Hill,42 Pershore Street,8 College Rd and 105 Aston Rd North in 1939!!
In 1927 and 1930 they were listed as living at 313 Bloomsbury Street with property at 105 Aston Rd North.
 
In addition to ladylinda's info above....in the Kellys Directory for 1940, the properties belonging to Arthur Jelf at 103 Spring Hill, 42 Pershore Street, 8 College Road (Saltley) and 105 Aston Road North were all listed as Dining Rooms. 4 Summer Lane is listed as, Dining Room and Summer Lane Garage (B'ham) Motor Agents
 
hi lindy;
many thanks for giving me and tracking down this grt information of arthers properties
i did know that in those days they called them dinning rooms ;
i am not to sure what year it was but my mom told me of the grand father starting the dinning rooms down summer lane way back in time
and how he started the bussiness was that he started to sell tea and sugar and sandwiches to the workers out side great king street lucas,s factory;
just before one of the wars and he made alot of money and openend up the dinner in summer lane and he used to have the shop windowsteamed up
because he always had a big hot roast beef in the shop window steaming and he always was seen wearing a cheffs big white hat
as he done dinners there every day and that would be one of the early shops
arther was one of william georges son ; i think he was the first son ; or it could have been henry
it was george william whom started all the sons off there first enterprize was at 901 tyburn rd where they had the large ware house for all there out lets
and supplyed alot of birmingham shops through out brum then they started in the lichfield rd and aston rd north and aston cross and the city centre in total they had thirty three shops and a couple of chippys
of the top of of my head it was henry i think was is first then arther then george.
i am in the proccess of puting a picture of george william the father the whom started them all off born in 1864; died on my birth date 15/9/1935
is wife mary ann jelf nee ary ann hughes dies 16 /9 1946 at tyburn rd there house was a big property at the corner of holly lane erdinton ;
ajoined the dinning rooms coffee shop and and 898 was there provisions ware house ; which was also a large premises
and they had a large ware housing at the rear of 237 park lane aston cross where there shops was on the corners and along the aston rd north
which was arthers as he did have the two one on the corner of rocky lane and the other one across the aston rd noth just past the astoria picture hous e
well i will hang up now and get my son to put these pictures i have of george his wife and first property
many thanks have a nice day best wishes astonian;;
 
hi ladylinda
yes arther had a couple of shops on the aston rd north just along from the aston cross on the very corner
facing the golden cross ;and there was one down around bloomsbury street they had connections at the nechells nick because his brother ernie,
is wife my grand mother was a police officier william hinton and bertha victoria hinton married ernie jelf ; my grand mothr and my mother joyce ivy
was there one and only child ;he also had a property next to snow hill station in the fortis and fifties ;
i have been sent a photo copy of grt grand father and son to sarah jones ; and of mary ann hughes [jelf ] whom was his wife up until 1946
and i have got a pic of the rise and fall of the coffee shop at ivydene 901 tyburn rd where he lived right up until he died
and mary ann jelf took over and lived there with there daughter ivy jelf whom remained a spinster for the rest of her life to an old age
mary ann jelf [ ne hughes ] died on the 16 of sep 1946 so she lived 11 years and one day longer to george and and he died on my birth date and she died one day after my birthday ; then little ivy took over the house and shop bussiness ; and lived there right up till she died in the general hospital in the eighties it stood empty for years then sold on to a london firm but sold back three weeks later and set fired to ;and gutted ;[ so was i ]
but any way thanks for all your assitance in my research i have put this picture the best i can as it was down loaded to me of
george william jelf; but the pictures of the shop and the stacked brick work was taken by me ;plus other photographs but not put them on
alsop the picture of mary ann jelf was down loaded to me and there was a old picture of dear old ivy standing in a room which clearly
looks it had never been redecorated since her father died ;going by what i had seen the whole place from top to bottom as never been touched
she carried on running that coffe shop from 1946 right into her old ge and fell ill ; and died she only had one partner in her life whom betrayed her
he was the cobbler from lichfield rd whom moved in with her and took her to the cleaners and milked what ever finnace he could before scamping back to liverpool and leaving her lonely in her hour of need in the thirtys it caused a big fused within the family of brothers they told her unless he goes they would never put a foot over her thresh hold ;oh i forgot to say in the first place when george died he left all his sons a gold item and the grand children was provided for at a certain age ;there names was kept in a book ; but the book was never found it stated so much money when they was twenty five years old
i do know how much it was but i will never devulge the amount as i got some documents from london out of his vaults ;
but i got the third degree from london before any thjink was released on paper they say they would nrever confirm and tell me any think that i do not know and they would not disclose it to my solictor either ;
but any way i am going to try and down load a picture of him and of her and ivy ; taken what year i do not know i have one some where with the banna ovens and he his standing out side with some of his brothers and friends ; first picture ; ivy jelf; second pic;2/3 mary ann jelf 4; george on left ; 5th pic coffee shop ivydene 901 tyburn rd erdinton also there home where he started the coffee rooms bussiness



ivy-jelf-1-front.jpgjelf-1.jpgJELF-2.jpgJELF-3.jpgjelf-location1.jpg
 
Fantastic photos,Astonian.
You are lucky to have such a "colourful" family history!
Mine is rather mundane compared to yours!
 
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