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John J Kelly and Doris Price children

  • Thread starter Thread starter AnyaDarr
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AnyaDarr

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Doris J Price m. John J Kelly 3q 1939 Birmingham ref 6d 1723

Trying to find if Doris (b 1918) and John had any chidlren or if there are any dates of death for them.:)
 
This could be John... John Joseph Kelly b. 2/11/1914 d. july 1986 Birmingham. Doris must have died before 1984 - or still alive at 90.

If they had children, these are possibles...

Michael O Kelly 1q 1940 Birmingham
Margaret A Kelly 1q 1941 Birmingham
Patricia A Kelly 2q 1942 Birmingham
June M Kelly 2q 1943 Birmingham
 
Icarus said:
Doris's must have died before 1984 - or still alive at 90.

Sorry beginner here, what is the significance of 1984 or still alive at 90. Are you saying their are two Doreens and you are not sure which is which?

Do you know how I would go about trying to find whether there are still any living relatives of the above couple?
Click to expand...
 
Hi there ,found a Doris Kelly born 16/6/17 who died September 1996 aged 79
(Registration district: Birmingham Inferred County:Warwickshire
Register number:M2B District and Subdistrict:0611M Entry number:161)
 
Thanks for that but according to the birth record she was born 1918 and had the inital J.
 
Darr

The BMD records On FreeBMD have been transcribed and directly searchable from 1837 upto around 1920 but progressing further with time. Ancestry have transcribed birth and marriage records from 1916 to 2005 but only death records from 1984 to 2005 are directly searchable at present.

Therefore to find a death record from,say, 1920 to 2004, we have to manually trawl through every quarter of every year to find it. For example, the record for Arthur C H Price's death in 1967 took around 3 hours to find. Doreen's death was not listed between 1984 and 2005 so she is either still alive or she died before 1984.

BTW..... Doris J was born 1919, not 1918. I gave you the wrong year earlier but have now corrected that post.
 
Goodness Icarus, I had no idea. I feel so guilty now that you have spent so long on it and thnak you very much indeed!

I have quite a red face! Glad you explained this to me so that I will try not to ask for things that aren't more easily searchable. Maybe stick to births and marriages for now!
 
By the way it is DORIS not Doreen J Price who is married to john Kelly see above.

Dorren M Price is another relative altogether. So now I am totally confused. Don't know how the two seem to ahve got mixed up as I started the thread correctly.
 
Further to above.

Finding living relatives..... This can be done with a lot of time, patience and a modicum of luck! Common names without secondary initials are nigh-on impossible though.

From the above names, let's look at Michael O Kelly born 1940 for instance. Only 4 Michael O Kelly's are shown on the 1916 to 2005 marriage index - one of them in Birmingham. Checking a recent UK electoral roll, there are 7 of that name listed around the UK but again only one in Birmingham. Great. But the only other person with him is not the person in the above marriage. None of the others matched either so there's still a fair chance it's the right man.

You would of course need to obtain Michael's birth certificate to be certain he was Doris & John's child. The girls could prove more difficult to trace! :)

Sorry about the Doris/Doreen typo, will correct it. All these Prices & Pryces have me in a tiswas! :-)
 
Ha Ha me too. Speaking of Tis Was. Looking back at the BHF 'Darr Price' thread, it was Bren who originally found me the death of Clarissa Price in 1911 at 66 also the right age for a 1846 date fo birth. Oh help.

Now what worrieds me is that the Clarissa in the 1920 electorial Roll is listed as PrYce not Price. However, just to complicate things Clarissa was married John Mathew Pryce and for some reason by the 1891 Census they have changed to Price and stuck with it ever since.

As you say IF it is Clarissa senior is the person in 1920 then 1925 would be more likely to be the date. I suppose the only way I have of finding out is by ordering both death certificates adn see if anyone familiar is on them. But oh the expense!
 
Just went to Free BDMs to look up John P Price B 1896 (circa) as Icarus gave me him in 1881 census as 5 years old. I know he died young but could not find any Birth or death date for him. Am I doing something wrong?
 
Hi Darr, another birth --

Paul N Kelly mmn Price, 3rd qtr 1952 Birmingham 9c 267

Have sent you an IM

bren
 
Darr said:
Just went to Free BDMs to look up John P Price B 1896 (circa) as Icarus gave me him in 1881 census as 5 years old. I know he died young but could not find any Birth or death date for him. Am I doing something wrong?
Click to expand...

Is this a typo, it should be c1876 --

John Percival Price 4th qtr 1875 Aston 6d 284

bren
 
Ah yes poor Maths...wanted to know when he died. as he does not appear in the 1901 census.
 
Darr

As Bren has posted, the FreeBMD record is listed thus...

Price John Percival Aston 6d 284 4q 1875

The Clarissa M Price in 1911 6c 451 is a birth record, not death. If she had lived, she would not be on the ER until 1935 anyway. Strange that she wasn't on the 1911 census and no death record either.

The 1911 full household page would show you how many kids Clara had and how many survived. Cost £6.95.
 
Thank you and where do you order this from?

Clarissa was supposed to have died at 17 so we might have to wait until the 1921 census to find out if no death record survives!

Also no death record for John Percival Price. Very odd.

Have checked my notes and

Also visiting in 1911 as sister in law to Jessie, Clara E Pryce B1869 Bham and her children Arthur C H Pryce B1897 Sparkbrook, Doreen M Pryce B1900 Kings Heath. No George.
If indeed this Clarissa M Price in 1911 6c 451 a birth record was Clara's child it seems a bit odd that she would be visitng her sister Jessie in Sheffield with no mention of her in 1911 Census. Even if the census was taken before she was born in that year and no mention of her husband George.
 
Darr

If my memory serves me correctly, Clara was visiting her sister Jessie in Sheffield on the 1901 census, not 1911.

The household in 1911 (Kings Norton) lists..

Clarissa Price 1846
Llewellyn Meredith Price 1885
Clara Edith Pryce 1869
Arthur Cedric Howes Pryce 1897

Also listed with the family were..
Florence Sansum 1877
Dorothy Rhodes 1898
Wilson Nicholson 1879

To obtain the original page scan, go to https://www.1911census.co.uk/
You will first have to sign up and then purchase credits. £6.95 buys 60 credits and each original page costs 30 credits. You can get a transcription for 10 credits but this only shows names and address whereas the original scan shows much more detail as well as being written in the householder's own hand.

As it's not cheap, be sure you request the right person. In this instance, do the search for Arthur Cedric Howes Pryce as he is unique. Then select 'view original page'.
 
Darr

Thought I'd run this by you...

? George A N Pryce d. 4q 1932 age 66 Rugby ref 6d 828
There was no birth record for a George A N and no George A's within 10 years either side of your George. Not conclusive but possible.

? Clara E Pryce m. Stewart Taylor 3q 1931 Bournemouth ref 2b 1845
Did she divorce George?

As it seems that Doreen M married there in 1928 and they were not in Birmingham after 1920, can we assume Clara moved down to Bournemouth between 1920-1925?

? Clara E Taylor d. 3q 1935 age 66 New Forest ref 2b 846 (same district ref as above)
 
I will have to digest this as I don't want to mess you about any more.

I do know some relative ran a boarding house in Bournemouth after her husband died....not divorced. But would they admit to divorce in those days?

I also know that Doreen Muriel Pryce was Clara's daughter and did indeed marry in Bournemouth. Perhaps her mother went there to join her after her husband's death or divorce.

I think I need to get the marriage certificate of George A as you suggested to at least see if it gives anymore info.

thnaks for all your patient help and explanations. I will post the photo to see if you think this is the right era for what you are suggesting.

She obviously wasn't married very long to her second husband if she died in 1935.

What is confusing is that I have a picture of what is supposed to be Doreen Muriel holding a little girl on a donkey and yet there don't seem to have been any children born in her marriage.

I wonder what happened to the brother, Arthur Cedric Howes Price, is he in Bournemouth too or did he stay in birmingham?
 
As Arthur Cedric appears to have married in Coventry in 1922, it would seem unlikely that he would follow her down south. But who knows? He was in the naval reserve during the war and the pull of the sea may have been an incentive - and, of course, he died in Worthing in 1967.
 
Yes, I think I will have to leave it there until I can:-

a contact a distant cousin who is closer on the tree to this part of the family
b trace his father this George....I don't seem to be able to post a photo from a quick reply anyway and am not starting any more threads. Yes the question is what happened between Coventry and Worthing! did he stay married to Ethel Batchelor adn did he stop at two girls for children....more questions than answers but thnaks for all your help and giving me something to go on a least.
 
Hi Darr

If you haven't already splashed out on the 1911 census...

1911: 8 Springfield Road, Kings Norton

PRYCE, Clara Edith Head Widow 42 1869 Warwickshire Bgham
PRYCE, Arthur Cedric Howes Son 14 1897 School Warwickshire Bgham
PRICE, Clarissa Mother Widow 65 1846 Warwickshire Bgham
PRICE, Llewellyn Meredith Brother Single 26 1885 Builder's Prime Coal Clerk Warwickshire Bgham
NICHOLSON, Wilson Boarder Single 32 1879 Chemist's Dispenser Cumberland Hutton Soil
RHODES, Dorothy Visitor 13 1898 School Warwickshire Bgham
SANSUM, Florence Servant Single 34 1877 General Servant Domestic Warwickshire Bgham

Clara had only 2 children and both were still living.
Her mother had 14 children and 4 had died.

Let me have your email address (by pm not here) and I'll send you the original scan which is written in Clara's own hand and bears her signature.

The young visitor, Dorothy Rhodes' parents Felix & Edith (Farmer) Rhodes lived in nearby Anderton Park Road.


Not sure if anyone found Clarissa's family on the 1901 census for you? Ancestry had got the family name as CRICE :D

1901: 46 Burlington Road Aston

PRICE, Clarissa Head Widow 55 1846 Birmingham
PRICE, Lizzie E Daughter Single 21 1880 School Teacher Birmingham
PRICE, Llewellyn M Son Single 16 1885 Architects Clerk Birmingham
PRICE, William H Son Single 14 1887 Clerk (School Board) Birmingham
PRICE, Leonard M Son Single 12 1889 Birmingham
SANSON, Florence Servant Single 23 1878 General Servant Birmingham (still with the family in 1911)
 
Icarus, thank you so much for your trouble. This will sound stupid but can you send me a PM so I can reply to it as I don't know how to send one form scratch alhtough I do know how to go to PMs and answer!

I would love to see the original even though I do have much of this info. Check the Darr Price thread as I don't want you to repeat searches and spend a lot of time. To see the original though would be a real treat.

I now knowthat Llewylen Meredith Price did indeed marry a Lousie Kemp in 1920 in London. So now am on the trail to try and find any children. I beleive they may have moved to Langport in Somerset.

Another weird thing about George Walton Price is that he appears to be attending Oscott College in Erdington in 1891 Census, aged 20. I have looked this up and it appears to be a seminary for Catholic priests. Yet by the next census he is married and a Manager at an Indian Rubber Mill. I think I might put this as a spearate post to see if there were other types of student there, it seems a bit strange. There was another much younger brother that became a dean in the C of E.
 
Also the mystery of George A Pryce's disappearance.

We see from the above that Clara E Pryce, married in the 1901 census and a widow in 1911 census so he must have died in those ten years. If anyone can find a death date so I can order the certificate then, I would be gratfeul.
 
Doreen M Pryce, who I earlier found in London on the 1911 census..... the 'institution' was 'The Royal Masonic School For Girls', a Benevolent Institution, situated on Wandsworth Common and housed at least 200 girls.
 
Re: Doreen Muriel Pryce

You are a great detective and this makes perfect sense as the family seems to have had more than their fair share of Freemasons, especially my grandfather who was a grand master of two lodges and also lived in Springfield Rd which is the address you gave me for Doreen's mother and brother.

He and granny lvied at no 2 and they at no 8. I think he owned quiet a lot of property in the area so maybe he owned No 8 as well. I suppose IF she had lost her father then going to a benevolent School would make sense.
 
Just googled and found this
Royal Masonic Institution for Girls; 1788; Clapham Junction, S.W. Offices, 21, Great Queen St., W.C.; To educate and maintain, from 7 to 17 years of age, daughters of Freemasons of every denomination under the English Constitution, who, from the death, illness, or misfortune of their fathers, are requiring the benefits of the Institution. There is also a scheme of out-education without election, under which 500 nominations have been distributed.

Now this would look as though either Clara is lying to get her daughter into this school or papa is indeed dead and she really is a widow. If so then where is the blooming death cert as he must have died between 1900 and 1911!
 
Icarus said:
This could be John... John Joseph Kelly b. 2/11/1914 d. july 1986 Birmingham. Doris must have died before 1984 - or still alive at 90.

If they had children, these are possibles...

Michael O Kelly 1q 1940 Birmingham
Margaret A Kelly 1q 1941 Birmingham
Patricia A Kelly 2q 1942 Birmingham
June M Kelly 2q 1943 Birmingham
Click to expand...

What are you basing this possibility on and is there anyway to find out if the Kelly children had any children?
 
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