How did they get their names?

[Derrick K Hartley]

Hello Everyone
I'm a new member venturing my first post so be gentle!
My Great Grandfather lived on Hockley Hill and probably frequented either The Grand Turk or the Benyon Arms which were not far away. Does anyone know how they got their names?
There are many Saracen's and Turk's Heads and these probably refer to the Crusades and seem improbable, and Hockley is a bit far away from the Caribbean Grand Turk!
As for the Benyon, that's just as much of a puzzle because I've noted the Benyon Estates are in and around London.
I've looked at the various websites that deal with pub names but drawn a blank so far, so if you have any ideas fire away!

 

[Lady Penelope]

Hi Derrick, Welcome to the forum. I can't help with your pub names but I'm sure someone will be able to. I'm fascinated by unusual pub names so I'll be watching this thread with interest. Good Luck with your quest.

 

[Astoness]

hello derrick and welcome...cant assist you with the names of pubs and why but hopefully someone can...i can however post a photo of the benyon arms..corner of hockley hill and farm st just in case you dont have it..this one is dated 1964

lyn

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

hello derrick and welcome...cant assist you with the names of pubs and why but hopefully someone can...i can however post a photo of the benyon arms..corner of hockley hill and farm st just in case you dont have it..this one is dated 1964

lynView attachment 143589

Thanks a lot Lyn! I had found some rather blurry ones but this one of the Benyon shows its sign as an Ansells pub clearly, so that's great. Cheers!

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

Hi Derrick, Welcome to the forum. I can't help with your pub names but I'm sure someone will be able to. I'm fascinated by unusual pub names so I'll be watching this thread with interest. Good Luck with your quest.

Hi Lady P. Thanks for the welcome. I have some ideas but I'll wait for suggestions from those who may know better!

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

Hi there
If anyone has a picture of the Grand Turk looking at the Icknield Street frontage it might show the pub sign? If it was a stern looking guy with a fez or even a turban it might spark off some ideas! Maybe there's a picture in one of the many books on old Brum which I don;'t get to see up here . . .

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

Hi Everyone
Here's another pub name to get your teeth into! I went to Handsworth Grammar School in the 1950s and remember a little old pub next to it on Grove Lane called the "Woodbine Tavern". I don't suppose it has survived but why did a little pub in Victorian Handsworth get a name like this?

 

[A Sparks]

Apart from the obvious thought of the cigarette brand - isn't woodbine a climbing plant?

 

[jmadone]

Another name for Honeysuckle.

 

[mw0njm.]

Hi Everyone
Here's another pub name to get your teeth into! I went to Handsworth Grammar School in the 1950s and remember a little old pub next to it on Grove Lane called the "Woodbine Tavern". I don't suppose it has survived but why did a little pub in Victorian Handsworth get a name like this?

Historic pub
According to www.realalerambles.co.uk, the pub took its name from the English national flowers and the woodbine, a climbing plant.

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

Historic pub
According to www.realalerambles.co.uk, the pub took its name from the English national flowers and the woodbine, a climbing plant.

Could be but Woodbine seems to cover several plants of different species! Which one do Brummies think it is Virginia Creeper, Honeysuckle, Jessamin ??? My money is on Honeysuckle. . .
If the pub was built (or changed to one) after about 1890 it could have been named after the cigarette?
If there was a picture showing the pub sign this may give a clue!

 

[Radiorails]

Towards the end of the 19th. century and early part of the 20th. native flowers were often used, it seems, as place or street names. I suspect Handsworth was not so densely populated at the time and maybe there was woodbine/honeysuckle growing on the land where the pub was built. I know the plant grows easily and vigorously in hedgerows. I have two small areas in my garden where it grows - the scent is lovely, during the summer evenings when in flower. I doubt the pub smelled so fragrant with the beer and baccy aromas.

 

[mikejee]

Here is the Woodbine

 

[Pedrocut]

"Woodbine" is general name applied to climbers (e.g. honeysuckle and bindweed). The dry winter stems have also been used for smoking, hence old names such as "boy's bacca” and "shepherd's delight" (and can this custom have been the origin of Woodbine cigarette brand?)

Flora Britannica, Richard Mabey.

 

[Pedrocut]

Birmingham Journal 1826...

 

[Pedrocut]

hello derrick and welcome...cant assist you with the names of pubs and why but hopefully someone can...i can however post a photo of the benyon arms..corner of hockley hill and farm st just in case you dont have it..this one is dated 1964

lynView attachment 143589

Benyon Arms Hockley Hill mentioned from at least 1866, with an "elegant" Club Room, and selling nice fresh Barm.
Also may have had a resident pianist?

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

Here is the Woodbine
View attachment 143658

Thanks Mike! That's what I vaguely remember next to my old school. Pretty clearly it was built as two houses and then became a pub judging from the photo.
I've done a bit of research and found it was demolished sometime after 2013 to make way for a new Sixth Form Centre for the school. Oh well - changing times!

 

[superdad3]

Perhaps it's old age, but I do wish that the breweries had left pub names alone. I liked the old names particularly when they were of long standing and everyone knew which one you were referring to.

 

[Derrick K Hartley]

I agree superdad3 - a fine sentiment! Especially when we had a rare pub name in the Woodbine Tavern!

After my research I have found it was boarded up since the 1980s and then demolished after 2013 to help accommodate a new building for the next door Grammar School. (My old school.) Here are two photos for comparison. The first, I think, is a slightly better one than Mike kindly posted. The second shows the old tavern all boarded up. I also found an interesting account online of its history, so I thought I would post it as a tribute to the pub I went into as a school boy.

So, sad to say, my quest for the origin of its name has not turned up anything definitive. Did it take over the name of the house (perhaps Woodbine Cottage?), or was a wistful fancy of one if its early publicans. In the 1840s Handsworth was a large scattered parish with farms and large houses such as Grove House which gave its name to the Lane on which the Tavern stood. However the galloping pace of development meant that by the 1890s it had been swallowed up into the city.

On we go! I've just found there was another Grand Turk - in Handsworth of all places not just in Hockley Hill!! More research . . .

 

[mikejee]

There was apparently also a Woodbine tavern in Gough St

 

[Richard Dye]

Derrick, welcome to the Forum, I cant help you with the names, but you are in a wonderful place for help and guidance!

Hello Everyone
I'm a new member venturing my first post so be gentle!
My Great Grandfather lived on Hockley Hill and probably frequented either The Grand Turk or the Benyon Arms which were not far away. Does anyone know how they got their names?
There are many Saracen's and Turk's Heads and these probably refer to the Crusades and seem improbable, and Hockley is a bit far away from the Caribbean Grand Turk!
As for the Benyon, that's just as much of a puzzle because I've noted the Benyon Estates are in and around London.
I've looked at the various websites that deal with pub names but drawn a blank so far, so if you have any ideas fire away!

 

[bryan summers]

Hi Everyone
Here's another pub name to get your teeth into! I went to Handsworth Grammar School in the 1950s and remember a little old pub next to it on Grove Lane called the "Woodbine Tavern". I don't suppose it has survived but why did a little pub in Victorian Handsworth get a name like this?

Hi Derrick. I was at HGS in the 50s and there is one reason I remember the Woodbine Tavern. Every two years the music master - Kenneth Page - used to produce a Gilbert & Sullivan opera at the school. I couldn't sing for toffee but always got dragged into the chorus because I was taking music. What's this got to do with the Woodbine? On the last night of the show he used to take all the sixth formers in the cast into the Woodbine and buy us half a pint - on the strict understanding that we didn't tell anybody. Sorry, I've no idea how it got its name but thanks for reviving a long-forgotten memory.