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HELP NEEDED PLEASE
- Thread starter Astoness
- Start date
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Hi Lyn, no I couldn't find anything apart from 1911 census if he's the one at 21 Hatchett Street.
pjmburns
master brummie
After a bit of digging it seems most likely that his service record was one of those destroyed. It also seems that the 3rd Battalion were a reserve unit who never actually left the UK - ending at Parkhurst on the IOW. As such I don't think they were awarded medals as these seem to be awarded for "fighting in a theatre of war". So there is no medal card for him either.
rosie
brummie
Hi lyn, my Grandfather's records were burnt too but there is a medal card on Ancestry for him. Normally Fold3 isn't included but during this free time it is (unless it was a mistake!) I found a pension document about his trench foot! You can register for a free account for limited searches etc.
rosie.
rosie.
Malc Toy
The Baggie Man
Interesting conundrum Lyn.
The Great War is of particular interest to me as my Handsworth born grandfather fought with the 286th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery being involved in several of the great battles. He survived the terrible conflict without a scratch, ironically only to be fatally knocked down by an Austin Seven on the Birmingham Road, West Bromwich in October 1931.
Contrary to the above post by Janice, every member of the armed services would have received, whether on active service or not, at least a British War and Victory medal - otherwise known as ‘Pip & Squeak’,
Had you not known his rank, service number and regiment, my guess would have been that he was using a false name - there are many many ‘AKA’s‘ who, for whatever reason, served in the Great War.
You could try: https://www.greatwarforum.org/
which is an amazing site and full of very knowledgeable people who would love the challenge.
Stay safe, Stay well
The Great War is of particular interest to me as my Handsworth born grandfather fought with the 286th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery being involved in several of the great battles. He survived the terrible conflict without a scratch, ironically only to be fatally knocked down by an Austin Seven on the Birmingham Road, West Bromwich in October 1931.
Contrary to the above post by Janice, every member of the armed services would have received, whether on active service or not, at least a British War and Victory medal - otherwise known as ‘Pip & Squeak’,
Had you not known his rank, service number and regiment, my guess would have been that he was using a false name - there are many many ‘AKA’s‘ who, for whatever reason, served in the Great War.
You could try: https://www.greatwarforum.org/
which is an amazing site and full of very knowledgeable people who would love the challenge.
Stay safe, Stay well
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sospiri
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
That is correct, Janice. My father served in the Great War and I am lucky to have his service records. But medically he was grade C3 - the lowest. He joined the RWR at Curzon Street. After basic training he was transferred to the Labor Corps - and yes, it did exist contrary to a remark by someone else on the Forum. However, they found that the work was too hard for him, and after three months he was transferred to the Royal Tank Corps at Bovington where is was made camp postmaster and served out the rest of his service there. He was NOT awarded any medals and his name does not appear in the Medal Card Index. He never left England.
Maurice
Maurice
Malc Toy
The Baggie Man
How embarrassing and my apologies !
I've been studying the Great War quite extensively since the mid-1980's and even written and compiled an 'easy read' guide book based around the opening day of the Battle of the Somme, 1st July 1916. In all that time I had believed that all military participants involved in that dreadful conflict received at least two medals - 'Pip & Squeak'
That said, it is somewhat questionable and unfair that only overseas service qualified and those on the home front performing vital war work were ignored including those serving in Ireland plus those subject to the Zeppelin raids which killed a number of people.
Lyn, I have looked on the WFA pension records site and there were three John Hollier's but none matching your man the nearest being a John Hollier who was in the South Staffords. However, following the army re-organisation of early 1918 a lot of men were transferred to different regiments to fill gaps and John may have been one of the 1000's involved.
I've been studying the Great War quite extensively since the mid-1980's and even written and compiled an 'easy read' guide book based around the opening day of the Battle of the Somme, 1st July 1916. In all that time I had believed that all military participants involved in that dreadful conflict received at least two medals - 'Pip & Squeak'
That said, it is somewhat questionable and unfair that only overseas service qualified and those on the home front performing vital war work were ignored including those serving in Ireland plus those subject to the Zeppelin raids which killed a number of people.
Lyn, I have looked on the WFA pension records site and there were three John Hollier's but none matching your man the nearest being a John Hollier who was in the South Staffords. However, following the army re-organisation of early 1918 a lot of men were transferred to different regiments to fill gaps and John may have been one of the 1000's involved.
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izzy eckerslike
master brummie
My Grandad on my mothers side was a medic/ stretcher bearer in WW1 with the Royal Warwickshire regiment, 200762 Pte F. GRAY. 5/ R.WAR-R.
We always thought he won his medal in Italy but someone checked for me via the 1/5th Warwicks battalion history and he won his MM in Austria around 2/3/4/5 November, 1918. In the mountains on the border with Italy. repeatedly crawling out under fire to drag injured soldiers to safety.
I remember as a child & we had a school project about the first world war, I asked my grandad about it, he told me that before going to Italy he was in France & I think Belgium, back then they were forced out from the trenches into the waiting enemy fire, you were shot as cowards if you didn't go over the top as ordered.
He recalled wave after wave of young men being mown down by machine gun fire & lying there crying & screaming for their Mother. Sometimes there was some kind of a lull in the fighting which allowed stretcher bearers to collect the wounded.
We always thought he won his medal in Italy but someone checked for me via the 1/5th Warwicks battalion history and he won his MM in Austria around 2/3/4/5 November, 1918. In the mountains on the border with Italy. repeatedly crawling out under fire to drag injured soldiers to safety.
I remember as a child & we had a school project about the first world war, I asked my grandad about it, he told me that before going to Italy he was in France & I think Belgium, back then they were forced out from the trenches into the waiting enemy fire, you were shot as cowards if you didn't go over the top as ordered.
He recalled wave after wave of young men being mown down by machine gun fire & lying there crying & screaming for their Mother. Sometimes there was some kind of a lull in the fighting which allowed stretcher bearers to collect the wounded.
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
Thank you bewdley,
that's the first time I've seen it, it does mention Italy there but someone researched the battalion history and found out it was actually over the border into Austria.
Grandad had a hard life although he lived into his nineties, he was a foundling left in a basket on a doorstep somewhere in Victorian Birmingham
I never knew my Grandmother, she died giving birth to my mum and then his wife's family shunned him and he was left to care for two girls. He advertised for a wife and a deaf lady replied and they were married, I can just about remember her
that's the first time I've seen it, it does mention Italy there but someone researched the battalion history and found out it was actually over the border into Austria.
Grandad had a hard life although he lived into his nineties, he was a foundling left in a basket on a doorstep somewhere in Victorian Birmingham
I never knew my Grandmother, she died giving birth to my mum and then his wife's family shunned him and he was left to care for two girls. He advertised for a wife and a deaf lady replied and they were married, I can just about remember her
bewdley
master brummie
You're welcome izzy eckerslike. It never fails to amaze me how some survived the awful life experiences they did and yet went on quietly living the best life they could. This is the sort of social history that should be kept alive. Such a sad start to a life, and his bravery showed again when he looked after his daughters. Hopefully he found happiness in his later years.
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
There must be records of my Grandfather somewhere that describes where he was found, also how he was given the name Frank Gray, my middle name is Frank. He must have been raised in an orphanage somewhere
The Grandmother I never knew had the maiden name Faunt and she must have died on Oct 1st 1921 when my mother was born, or perhaps a few days later with an infection.
The Grandmother I never knew had the maiden name Faunt and she must have died on Oct 1st 1921 when my mother was born, or perhaps a few days later with an infection.
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bewdley
master brummie
I would hope there are records somewhere for your Grandfather. I have had a quick look and not found anything and I have to go out now, but I will pick it up when I return later unless someone else has found something for you. Do you mind giving your mother's name? I can't find a Gray birth mmn Faunt in 1921 or on the 1939 with that date of birth. That doesn't mean she's not there as there are mis-transcriptions etc.
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
That's very kind bewdley, my mothers name was Marion Faith Gray, one sister, probably 1 or 2 years older called Nancy
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
My sister tells me mom was born on Oct 1st 1922 so I got it wrong, sorry
MWS
from Bham
Slight confusion I think. Izzy's mother and grandmother were both called Marion. Grandmother - Marion Alvey Jervis b1897, mmn Faunt. Mother - Marion Faith Gray b1922, mmn Jervis.
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
Thank you MWS, I'm confused, was my grandmother a Faunt or a Jervis?
I've remembered an old post of mine from 2011 re the Faunt family,
I've remembered an old post of mine from 2011 re the Faunt family,
Faunt, coal merchants
Can anyone find any reference to 'Faunt's' coal merchants around Acocks Green area,? probably early 20th century around 1910 , presumably the coal yard would have next to a railway station in the area This was a distant relative of ours who ran a very prosperous business in Brazil building...
birminghamhistory.co.uk
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
I can see the name of Grandads second wife as Florence, I can see there that Moms sister Nancy is shown with her married name to (Douglas) Sturgess and also Mums married name to (Arthur) Newey but they can't all have been living there as far as I know as Mum & Dad lived with Dads Mum when first married, also in Yardley Wood
It shows 3rd Oct as my Mothers birth but we were sure it was the 2nd, A question mark for Grandad's birth of course.
That explains it, thank you, I wonder if the Jervis family were wealthy as were the Faunts? if so it could explain why they must have disapproved of Marion Jervis marrying common labourer Grandad and shunned him after the death of Marion.
Thank you pimburns, that's even more interesting info, it explains how he came to be in Austria.
As a child I used to look at his set of medals in a big frame on the wall, it was all beautifully embroidered with the Antelope mascot. I was given the medals but never discovered what happened to the picture. I was also fascinated by some huge glass domes containing humming birds and giant insects brought back from Brazil, where those ended up I've no idea either.
MWS
from Bham
Herbert was b1869 Lichfield (registered as Jarvis). Father was James an agricultural labourer in 1881.
Annie's father Frederick was a cabinet maker and they must have travelled a bit because 2 of Annie's siblings were born in Brazil. Frederick was born in Lincolnshire the son of a wheelwright.
Annie's father Frederick was a cabinet maker and they must have travelled a bit because 2 of Annie's siblings were born in Brazil. Frederick was born in Lincolnshire the son of a wheelwright.
izzy eckerslike
master brummie
Not sure, probably 1943/4 but it was during the war as dad has his RAF uniform on and had been given special short leave, mum then went with him to a remote airfield base somewhere, possibly in the Orkneys, dad was an aircraft electrician on Lancasters & also Blenheims I think.
He died 5 years ago aged 96 and towards the end told me some of the things that went on inc an incredible error made by his superior that could have destroyed the whole base.
This is really fascinating so thank you all who are contributing, I wonder how they came to be in Brazil because they were obviously wealthy by then.
Aunt Rose Faunt was a regular visitor, we never saw Alec, she told us they had numerous servants and lived in a huge house. This is where Frederick organised or built the first railway across Brazil according to our family knowledge. Other than Aunt Rose's account then how much of the railway building is correct i have no idea.
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