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Gun sellers [ birmingham ] 1930-50,s

A

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
Hi GUYS
Many years ago there was two companies selling selling guns
in the city of brum along side of other shops
and what i would like to know if possible if any-body can tell me any think
about them there names are jelfs . and powell gun smiths sellers
they was in the centre of town in the thirty,s through till about the sixties
the first one was jelfs whom was down the side of the old marks and spencers
and powells was a couple of doors away whom sold a vairity of guns
the other day i have met a person who tells me that it was there grt . grt grand
mother and around the late 1800 was married to a jelf
and this jelf was a gun smith in the city for many years, and at some stage
in years progress was told that powells had bought into the jelfs bussines
and they was known as jelfs and powell gun shops
i remember seing these shops in the city when i was a lad
also i know powells had some kind of factory on the moseley rd for decades
which i beleive that where they was making them
and this persons family name if i have got it right was ellesley and they
was related to the powells and they used this name to put to a weaponary
gun called the ellseley riffle if i have put it correctly
is it possible some body could tell me any names or intials of these familys
of the the two owners jelf-powells gun smiths or any other info;
on the guns sold i do have a great intrest in guns
many thanks best wishes Astonian ;;
 
Hi terry
many thanks for that quick responce on my request .i have a great intrest of guns
and i do a fair bit of shooting myself and i collect the maggs every week
i shall of course down load that info; of theres
and i shall persue further with my intrest regarding powells and the jelfs shop whom also sold the guns
and it was powells whom bought out the jelfs shop which was also in carrs lane now you have
remided me of the rd which was in infact was carrs lane also there was a great big
fishing tackle shop in arrs lane as i remember it
down the side of marks and sparks
many thanks again terry
have a nice day every boy best wishes Astonian ;
IF YOU SEE SOME-ONE TODAY WHOM IS NOT SMILING, ---- GIVE THEM ONE OF YOURS ;;
 
The gun shops in Carrs Lane were a magnet to me in my youth, i could not have afforded one let alone a pair, the trams & later trolley bus`s left from there for Yardley where i lived. Len.
 
Alan,
There were three gunshops in Steelhouse Lane,between Weaman St. and the Castle pub.
And there were a number of gunmakers in Weaman St.
 
hI Ray
do you remembr the old steel house lane during the early years around the ninety 52-3 ish
when the shops was very tiny and looked like litte houses and the shop doors was more or less a little timber frame one little push and the door went through and there shops windows was very tiny
and they was directly facing the police station cell doors
i used to look at them guns when i was a kid i had a fascitation for them i have always had a intrest in guns
i do have a collection of them under lock and key and in a steel cubbard and licence by the police
and we do alot of grouse shooting down here in the country
when they remodered steel house the moved those shops around to weamaman st did or did not ?
is that by the old general hospital as i recall it
getting what i was going to say was in the early years do you recall the incident that ther was three or four police officiers from across the rd at steel house lane bearing in mind the nick was facing directly these gun shops
actual broke in to the one shop to steal the guns and another on duty police oficier had sen them
and emediately reported the sighting to his commanding officier
and they came out and was arrested and charged ,
that incident was in the sunday mercury the incident hapenend on a friday night early houses
because of my family being whom they was involved with law and order and on the benches
and senior detectives close friends to the family whom came to the get togethers at new cannal st
and some was from dig beth station as well whom told us about it before press
and they used to come around to the get to gether and tip off my grand parents and there family
of arrange raids on the shops at ew cannal st , summer lane and new cannal st
for all the illegal gambling machine and betting which was mainly run by grand father and his elder brother
and of course there father george william jelf senior
sorry if i have rambled of the track abit, regarding the gun shops i beleive to what i have been told
the other day from some-one whom in the early or late 1800;s arred into a jelf had told me that the jelfs had a gun shop in carrs lane around the early fifties and that powells had bought them out or they joined forces
ray did you ever come across this shop i am trying to find out what a intials this jelf was
i know there was another jelf in the town down by the midland hotel in the passage way
and he was a tailor shop but for some reason they fell out with him for what ever i do not know
weaman street was the moderen shops i beleive ray can you tell me more
speak to you soon best wishes Alan ;;
 
Alan,
In 1952 I worked at The British Hub in Weaman St.the whole street was a labrynth of small gunsmith workshops.With the exeption of Webley Scott,they were all one man businesses,where a man would have a couple of machine tools and a lot of skill,they would spend months making one pair of shotguns,but the finished product would be the finest in the world.There were cobbled courtyards and creaky staircases everywere,and the buildings were all early 19th.century.
Now,The British Hub,it was a sweat shop,they mainly employed women and boy's,and of course all the boy's were waiting for their call up,so we didn't care about anything exept to make as much money as possible,and enjoy it while we could.And you could earn very good wages,if you were fast,of course we had to make short cuts and forget about any health and safety matters,which resulted in a lot of injury.
All gone now, and good riddance to a lot of it,but I shall never forget the unsurpassed skills of those gunmakers.:)
 
HI RAY
Thanks for coming back to us on that ,i really appreciate your in put on
that thread i will down load that info off the site ;
i remember the webbly- scot name very well they made quite alot did ,nt they
ray can you remember a name like ellseley rifle ,it was an very early riffle before my time
only i have met some-one whom tells me they was or a member of there famiy around the late 1800,s
married into the jelfs whom said they sold guns . and this person said they was related to the powells whom made guns and at some time after wards went into bussinesswith the jelfs or they may have said bought them
out there bussiness in the early 1900s but i am convinced they was there around 1955 in carrs lane
that being a jelfs gun shop but also i can not recall a riffle being named after the one of the powells family
ray ; have you any thoughts ormemory on that
speak to you soon Alan ;;;
 
Alan,
I don't really know much about rifles and guns,I was probably the worst shot in the British Army,and would have been more dangerous using my rifle as club.:rolleyes:However,the precision engineering of guns as always impressed me,I just don't like what they are used for very much.:(
A name you mentioned, Powell, seems to ring a bell with the Birmingham gunmakers,but can't quite make a connection ( it's the memory thing again ). As an aside,did you know half the small arms made for the allies during the war,were "Made in Birmingham".:)
 
When I worked at Bulpitt's, the office I was in covered the despatching of bomb noses, tails and catridges. All department's were not just involved in kettles and tea pots. Although the Admiralty and MOD bought no end of the set's.
 
len...the gun shop in carrs lane only closed last year i think and i do hope the building remains... theres a pic of it somewhere on the forum...

lyn:)
 
In conversation with a friend a few months ago he told me his dad (who lived in Summer Lane) was a Gun Runner as a boy. there were so many little gun makers in the area and most of them only did certain parts of the gun. his job was to take the guns from gun makers to gun makers each one doing a specific part of the gun assembley. Dek
 
fascinating story dek...of course summer lane is not far from the gunquarter either...

cheers..

lyn
 
BATES GUNSMITH

Richard Henry Bate reportedly established his business in 1850 at 97 Steelhouse Lane, but he was not recorded in the street directories until 1853. A rotary under-lever hammergun has been seen engraved R H Bate Snr, so it may be that this R H Bate was the son who had his own business, or that R H Bate had a son named after himself as well as a son named George.
In 1855 Richard moved to 132 Steelhouse Lane and took additional premises at 88 Weaman Street.

In 1861 the Weaman Street premises were given up in favour of 4 Aston Road which suggests the firm bought or established a barrel making business there.

An 1862 advertisement stated: "R H Bate, 132 Steelhouse Lane, Birmingham. Military Rifle, Gun and Pistol Manufacturer. Double Action Revolving Pistols of every description. Gun Barrel and Rifle Barrel Maker. N.B. Old guns re-stocked and altered into Percussion on most approved principle. Barrels re-bored."

In 1868 the firm was recorded only at 132 Steelhouse Lane.

R H Bate appears to retired or died between 1878 and 1881 and his son, George Bate took over the firm re-naming it after himself by 1890.

In 1898 George probably gave up the Aston Road premises because he acquired other premises at 2 Easy Row; it is likely the Easy Row premises were vacated soon after 1900.

In about 1918, the firm employed William Cross as gunsmith and shop manager, he had previously worked for William Powell.

When the firm acquired limited liability and became G Bate Ltd is not known, probably in the late 1920s.

In 1940 the firm's premises at 132 Steelhouse Lane were bombed and the firm relocated to an unknown address, possibly in Price Street (New Buildings, 63 Price Street not confirmed).

In the early 1950s the Bate family sold the business to William Cross's son, George, and his son, Conrad.

In about 1963 the firm moved to 7 Corporation Street but they retained workshops in New Buildings, 63 Price Street.

In about 1970 they moved to 16 Colmore Circus, Queensway.

In 1976 the firm opened a branch at 7 Market Square, Stafford and a shooting school on the Shugborough estate near Stafford. It may have been at this time that Conrad's son, Nicholas, joined the firm.

In about 1990 the firm in Birmingham changed its name to Bate & Cross (Gunmakers) Ltd, and moved to 8-10 Colmore Circus, Birmingham, they are still trading and still retain the workshops in Price Street.

The shooting school no longer operates and the shop in Stafford trades under the name of George Bate Gunmakers (Stafford) Ltd.
 
mw0njm. said:
BATES GUNSMITH

Richard Henry Bate reportedly established his business in 1850 at 97 Steelhouse Lane, but he was not recorded in the street directories until 1853. A rotary under-lever hammergun has been seen engraved R H Bate Snr, so it may be that this R H Bate was the son who had his own business, or that R H Bate had a son named after himself as well as a son named George.
In 1855 Richard moved to 132 Steelhouse Lane and took additional premises at 88 Weaman Street.

In 1861 the Weaman Street premises were given up in favour of 4 Aston Road which suggests the firm bought or established a barrel making business there.

An 1862 advertisement stated: "R H Bate, 132 Steelhouse Lane, Birmingham. Military Rifle, Gun and Pistol Manufacturer. Double Action Revolving Pistols of every description. Gun Barrel and Rifle Barrel Maker. N.B. Old guns re-stocked and altered into Percussion on most approved principle. Barrels re-bored."

In 1868 the firm was recorded only at 132 Steelhouse Lane.

R H Bate appears to retired or died between 1878 and 1881 and his son, George Bate took over the firm re-naming it after himself by 1890.

In 1898 George probably gave up the Aston Road premises because he acquired other premises at 2 Easy Row; it is likely the Easy Row premises were vacated soon after 1900.

In about 1918, the firm employed William Cross as gunsmith and shop manager, he had previously worked for William Powell.

When the firm acquired limited liability and became G Bate Ltd is not known, probably in the late 1920s.

In 1940 the firm's premises at 132 Steelhouse Lane were bombed and the firm relocated to an unknown address, possibly in Price Street (New Buildings, 63 Price Street not confirmed).

In the early 1950s the Bate family sold the business to William Cross's son, George, and his son, Conrad.

In about 1963 the firm moved to 7 Corporation Street but they retained workshops in New Buildings, 63 Price Street.

In about 1970 they moved to 16 Colmore Circus, Queensway.

In 1976 the firm opened a branch at 7 Market Square, Stafford and a shooting school on the Shugborough estate near Stafford. It may have been at this time that Conrad's son, Nicholas, joined the firm.

In about 1990 the firm in Birmingham changed its name to Bate & Cross (Gunmakers) Ltd, and moved to 8-10 Colmore Circus, Birmingham, they are still trading and still retain the workshops in Price Street.

The shooting school no longer operates and the shop in Stafford trades under the name of George Bate Gunmakers (Stafford) Ltd.
Click to expand...
A most interesting journey/story of Birminghams historical legacy!
 
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