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Gun Quarter or Gun Factory photos - plea for help
- Thread starter hayboy
- Start date
W
Wendy
Guest
That's great news Jon I wish you every success with you web site. The gun factories were so important to the city and their history should be preserved and in the public domain. I hope you get some pictures and info. I will sort out the info I have and send it to you. My best wishes. Wendy.
Ron Rogers
master brummie
Hi GunBoy
My Grandfather and many of my distant relatives were in the gun trade in Birmingham (18??- 1911) , could i please have the name of your website
thanks Ron Rogers
My Grandfather and many of my distant relatives were in the gun trade in Birmingham (18??- 1911) , could i please have the name of your website
thanks Ron Rogers
W
Wendy
Guest
I hope it's ok to post the website here but it's another great piece of our history.
www.birminghamgunmuseum.com
www.birminghamgunmuseum.com
BordesleyExile
master brummie
In the meantime, Hayboy, you could consider gun industry ads from some of the old directories. Good luck with your website. I am so pleased that you included maps.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Hi, I put on some stuff some time ago but most of it was lost when we changed hosting. Here it is again.
" Birmingham Gun Quarter
I've got a copy of an article written by Dr D M Smith from the University of Manchester sometime around 1964. It makes fascinating reading (perhaps some of you have already read it.)
To paraphrase Dr D M Smith:
The Gun Quarter occupied an “L” shaped area on the western side of the General Hospital. The area contained an mixture of industrial and residential property, with the Georgian facades hiding a multitude of small factories and workshops created by the conversion and extension of what were originally built as town houses for the well-to-do. (see the illustrations earlier)
By no means all the workshops were occupied by gun makers, but it was as the gun manufacturing district that the area was recognised universally as a distinctive part of the city.
Two distinct concentrations of gun makers existed after the end of WW2, in the north around St Mary’s Row, Loveday Street and Price Street and to the south between Weaman Street, Whittall Strett and Steelhouse Lane.
“The concentration mentioned earlier represents the core of what was formerly a more extensive concentration, as the approximate limits of the Gun Quarter almost a century earlier indicate.” (See map on my first post)
“The first major incursion into the L-shaped area was made at the end of the 19th century when the Weaman Row-Russell Street area was cleared to make way for the General Hospital.
The reason for this concentration in such a small area is to be found in the organisation of the Gun Trade. At an early stage the need to speed up production led to division of labour and the trade soon separated into a number of branches, each specialising in one process. Perhaps the first activity to become clearly defined as a separate branch of the trade was the making of gun locks, which became concentrated in Wolverhampton and Willenhall during the 18th century. Barrel welding probably developed as a separate trade during the same period.
The Gun Trade thus became divided into two main sections – the “material makers”, producing the various parts of the guns and the “setters-up” who did the assembly and finishing. Between these came the manufacturer, or “gun maker”, who collected together the products of the material makers and then put them out to the setters-up.
Pigot’s Commercial Directory of Birmingham published in 1829 listed persons engaged in the gun trade under 14 different headings.” (Table 1 on my first post indicates the variety of activities operating as separate branches even at this early date.) “The complex organisation of the trade is further emphasized by J. D. Goodman’s list of workmen employed in 1865, which includes 32 separately distinguished activities in the material making section, together employing 3,420 workers and 19 setting-up trades with a combined labour force of 3,920.
A few branches of the gun trade, such as lock-making were undertaken in the Black Country. The location of barrel-making, which required some heavy machinery, was restricted by the need for water or steam power (only 9 of the 27 gun barrel makers in Pigot’s 1829 Directory had locations within the Gun Quarter.) Most branches, however, could be carried on in any small factory or workshop and their congregation in one particular part of Birmingham was a natural result of the need for close contact between material maker, manufacturer and setter-up. If materials had to be collected from or sent out to places beyond the Gun Quarter, additional costs would arise from the consequent expenditure of time and effort.”
" Birmingham Gun Quarter
I've got a copy of an article written by Dr D M Smith from the University of Manchester sometime around 1964. It makes fascinating reading (perhaps some of you have already read it.)
To paraphrase Dr D M Smith:
The Gun Quarter occupied an “L” shaped area on the western side of the General Hospital. The area contained an mixture of industrial and residential property, with the Georgian facades hiding a multitude of small factories and workshops created by the conversion and extension of what were originally built as town houses for the well-to-do. (see the illustrations earlier)
By no means all the workshops were occupied by gun makers, but it was as the gun manufacturing district that the area was recognised universally as a distinctive part of the city.
Two distinct concentrations of gun makers existed after the end of WW2, in the north around St Mary’s Row, Loveday Street and Price Street and to the south between Weaman Street, Whittall Strett and Steelhouse Lane.
“The concentration mentioned earlier represents the core of what was formerly a more extensive concentration, as the approximate limits of the Gun Quarter almost a century earlier indicate.” (See map on my first post)
“The first major incursion into the L-shaped area was made at the end of the 19th century when the Weaman Row-Russell Street area was cleared to make way for the General Hospital.
The reason for this concentration in such a small area is to be found in the organisation of the Gun Trade. At an early stage the need to speed up production led to division of labour and the trade soon separated into a number of branches, each specialising in one process. Perhaps the first activity to become clearly defined as a separate branch of the trade was the making of gun locks, which became concentrated in Wolverhampton and Willenhall during the 18th century. Barrel welding probably developed as a separate trade during the same period.
The Gun Trade thus became divided into two main sections – the “material makers”, producing the various parts of the guns and the “setters-up” who did the assembly and finishing. Between these came the manufacturer, or “gun maker”, who collected together the products of the material makers and then put them out to the setters-up.
Pigot’s Commercial Directory of Birmingham published in 1829 listed persons engaged in the gun trade under 14 different headings.” (Table 1 on my first post indicates the variety of activities operating as separate branches even at this early date.) “The complex organisation of the trade is further emphasized by J. D. Goodman’s list of workmen employed in 1865, which includes 32 separately distinguished activities in the material making section, together employing 3,420 workers and 19 setting-up trades with a combined labour force of 3,920.
A few branches of the gun trade, such as lock-making were undertaken in the Black Country. The location of barrel-making, which required some heavy machinery, was restricted by the need for water or steam power (only 9 of the 27 gun barrel makers in Pigot’s 1829 Directory had locations within the Gun Quarter.) Most branches, however, could be carried on in any small factory or workshop and their congregation in one particular part of Birmingham was a natural result of the need for close contact between material maker, manufacturer and setter-up. If materials had to be collected from or sent out to places beyond the Gun Quarter, additional costs would arise from the consequent expenditure of time and effort.”
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Hi, I'm having trouble putting on the photos. When I go to "Advanced" and select, then upload, photos they appear blank. Is this a current Forum problem? I've never had this problem before.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
M
mike-g
Guest
If you have posted them before change the name of the pic and try again, this normally wotks.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Thanks Mike, but I've renamed them with the word "New" preceeding the titles and still no good.
On the "Manage Attachments" screen when I "Add Files", instead of appearing on the "Home" section it goes straight to the "Attachments" bit but the thumbnail is greyed out although the file name appears.
On the "Manage Attachments" screen when I "Add Files", instead of appearing on the "Home" section it goes straight to the "Attachments" bit but the thumbnail is greyed out although the file name appears.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Mike, BTW they are jpg files and have been re-sized.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Nope, still trying, still not working.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
I've renamed them as numbers and managed to upload some. Can't work out why they won't upload with completely changed words!
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Here are the last 4
Ray Barrett
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN R.I.P.
David,
The photo.(plate 29)inside a gunsmiths workshop is exactly as I remember it.
I worked at the British Hub in Weaman St.in the early 50s.the whole street was a hive of similar workshops,the one I worked in was the size of the one in your photo.and it contained about 15 belt driven centre lathes.We were paid 5/- for turning a gross of bicycle hubs,it was a sort of waiting room till National service called.Would not have liked to have missed it though,you could always pop in and watch the gunsmiths at work,what skill they had.
The photo.(plate 29)inside a gunsmiths workshop is exactly as I remember it.
I worked at the British Hub in Weaman St.in the early 50s.the whole street was a hive of similar workshops,the one I worked in was the size of the one in your photo.and it contained about 15 belt driven centre lathes.We were paid 5/- for turning a gross of bicycle hubs,it was a sort of waiting room till National service called.Would not have liked to have missed it though,you could always pop in and watch the gunsmiths at work,what skill they had.
dek carr
gone but not forgotten
Hayboy you may be right but I am not so sure I worked for Walker Bros electrical contractor in the late 50s -60s we were based in Bath St opposite the Gun Makers Arms our office was almost on the corner of Whittall St. maybe the memory has faded in time. Dek
Ray Barrett
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN R.I.P.
Dec,
In the early 50s.I remember Walker Bros.having a place in Temple Row close to the "The Old Royal"....please tell me I didn't dream it.
In the early 50s.I remember Walker Bros.having a place in Temple Row close to the "The Old Royal"....please tell me I didn't dream it.
Ray Barrett
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN R.I.P.
Dec,
It's just a vague memory but I remember the move you speak of.I did some contract work at the Austin and Walker Bros paid my wages,but I never actually went to the main office.
It's just a vague memory but I remember the move you speak of.I did some contract work at the Austin and Walker Bros paid my wages,but I never actually went to the main office.
davidfowler
Exiled Brummie
Glad you guys like the pics.
Dek
Is this in relationship to the photo?. The building in Whittall st with J.W.Fry & Sons (No 75) and Midland Gun Co ( no 74) is the red building on the c1910 map. They were there 1943-56. The closed shop in the foreground (in blue) must be either 26 or 27 Bath St, but I cannot find it listed under their, or any other, name in the directories of the period that I have.
In 1955-56 they also had 76/77 Bath St
By 1962 they were at 55/56 Price St
Note In 1940 they are listed as at 76/77 Bath St. I suspect they were bombed, and had to move to whittal St, but then rebuilt by 1955
mike
Is this in relationship to the photo?. The building in Whittall st with J.W.Fry & Sons (No 75) and Midland Gun Co ( no 74) is the red building on the c1910 map. They were there 1943-56. The closed shop in the foreground (in blue) must be either 26 or 27 Bath St, but I cannot find it listed under their, or any other, name in the directories of the period that I have.
In 1955-56 they also had 76/77 Bath St
By 1962 they were at 55/56 Price St
Note In 1940 they are listed as at 76/77 Bath St. I suspect they were bombed, and had to move to whittal St, but then rebuilt by 1955
mike
changinman1
master brummie
Hi , has anyone got any photos / records / staff rosters of any of the factories or workshops of the gun quarter that relate to anyone with the surname Field, my family came up from London when it all moved to Bham , please let me know if anyone finds anything
changinman1
master brummie
Hi my relatives were all in the gun trade too, may I have the link please xxxx