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George Miller, Publican

Astoness

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi folks...this is a long shot..wonder if anyone out there has a kellys for 1861 or maybe a year either side..cant be sure when he moved but know for sure that a george milner was a publican in cregoe st in 61...the census unfortunately does not give the numbering...if it was pub he ran i would be great to find out which one...the earliest kellys i have is for 1892 and shows 2 pubs..the woodman and the shakespearian bar just wondered if he ran either of these two..

many thanks for any help

lyn
 
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Hi Lyn

Doesn't help much with the numbering issue but seems like there was another pub in Cregoe St around the same time as George Milner was a publican.

The Birmingham Daily Post in 1858 mentions a Thomas Flewitt residing at the Warwick Arms, Cregoe Street - There is mention of transfer of Licence in 1873 from Ann Collins to Henry Jukes so pretty sure it is/was a pub.

In 1863 a John Cooper writes a letter to the daily post and his address was given as Woodman, Cregoe Street though doesn't mention is he was the Landlord or residing there. Just trying to give you some references to help pin George Milner down.

Suzanne
 
thank you suzanne...never know when any info could prove useful...it seems though as though i have wasted a thread as ive just been informed that kellys was not out in 1861..

thanks again

lyn
 
thats true suzanne..just look how you managed to confirm that st martins marriage for me...

lyn
 
Lyn
The 1862 directory lists only one George milner, a sawmaker at 26 Stoke st
The 1867 directory only lists a George milner as beer eretailer at lower trinity st.
Looking at the census page referring to George in 1861, at the bottom of the page are Mandel Mandoschis and Josiah Thompson. These are respectively nos 64 & 65,. Therefore George is at a slightly lower number than 64. The next number listed in the 1862 directory is 60, which is Daniel Buck, retail brewer. Similarly the 1867 directory lists no 60 as Thomas Jones , beer retailer . In 1858 it is thomas flewett , retail brewer. I think therefore that George is at no 60. the 1925, 1927 & 1930 Electoral rolls list it as the Warwick Arms
 
Well done Mike:)

The 1881 census also lists the Warwick Arms as 60 Cregoe Street.

Suzanne
 
Thank you very much indeed, Lyn, Suzanne & Mike. I had never expected to get this information. By way of appreciation I'll add some Cregoe photos later on on the Cregoe thread as everything was lost.
 
shirl i was hoping there was a way of working out the address in cregoe of george milner and the pub he ran...if you are happy with the info that mike and suzanne has found a pic of the warwick arms would make things complete for you..


will look on the cregoe st thread later on...

lyn
 
Astoness said:
hi folks...this is a long shot..wonder if anyone out there has a kellys for 1861 or maybe a year either side..cant be sure when he moved but know for sure that a george milner was a publican in cregoe st in 61...the census unfortunately does not give the numbering...if it was pub he ran i would be great to find out which one...the earliest kellys i have is for 1892 and shows 2 pubs..the woodman and the shakespearian bar just wondered if he ran either of these two..

many thanks for any help

lyn
Click to expand...


There is often some slippage between the census and trade directories due to printing publishing deadlines etc. An 1861 trade directory lists George Milner as a retail brewer at No. 29 Ryland Street North. This was a beer house called the King’s Head. I note that in the 1861 census that George Milner was listed as both publican and saw maker. This was the Warwick Arms. Seemingly his stay was short. In the 1862 Corporation Directory for Birmingham George Milner is listed as a saw maker at No.26 Stoke Street.
 
Thank you very much for that information,Brumboozer. What is the 1861 directory as I have not come across that?
Thank you too, Lyn, for your find from the London Gazette. It left me saddened & very surprised but pleased to have new addresses.
George Milner (BDP 18600207).jpgMilner George 25.10.1864 London Gazette p5048.JPG
 
To slightly correct the bankruptcy notice, There were three Nelson Streets at that time, Nelson St (sandpits), Nelson St south, and Nelson St West. The 1855 directories show George being at 6 Nelson St West (6 Nelson St south was Joseph Miller - by coincidence a similar sounding name and Nelson st (Sandpits) is not listed). He is not listed in the 1849 directories
 
glad to be of help shirl..must admit i was surprised when i stumbled on that gazette article....pics are normally my thing lol..

lyn
 
I thought your Gazette find was absolutely brilliant, Lyn. What insights you discovered!
Thank you for pointing out that there were 3 Nelson Sts, Mike. I had only found the Sandpits location, but now I see that Nelson St West was off 73 Summer Hill, at least in 1872.
 
It isn't off summer Hill, it is off summer Hill St. I attach a map c 1889 showing Nelson St and Nelson St West. . As you can see, they are continuous, but Summer Hill St runs down and separates the two. No 6 is, I am almost certain the red building. It could possibly be the small back to back to the north side of it, but I would think the red building is more likely


map_c_1889_nelson_st__2B_nelson_st_west__no_6_nelson_st.jpg
 
Thank you so much, Mike. I was thrown when I read that Nelson St West was off Summer Hill so I appreciate your clarification & marking no 6.
 
Which end of Crego St was at the top of the hill? Was it the Bath Row or Bell Barn ends? The photos of Cregoe St are seldom described by their very exact location so I need more clues.
 
There is a photo from the top of Pigott st , which shows the newsagent on Bath row corner clearly (Lamb), and this st is definitely downhill from Bath row
 
Warwick-Arms.jpgthis pic of the warwick arms was orginally posted by the gt gt grandaugher of john lowry who ran the pub from 1912..it was lost when the forum was hacked but luckily for us brumboozer saved it and passed it onto me..fantastic pic of the lowry family standing outside the pub..in 1915 and 21 it was run by john lowrys wife and by 1932 it had become refreshment rooms..bet my gt grandad went in here...many thanks to brumboozer for replying to my request..its fantastic when members all pull together..

lyn
 
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Thank you so much, Mike, Lyn & Brumboozer. Its fantastic to see a pic of the Warwick Arms & gratifying to get the lie of the land so I can get the area photos in context. What a result, particularly as it was such a long shot to start with.
 
I was surprised I had not saved the picture of the warwick Arms, but now find I did, under Lowry, and for soem reason a search did not get it. For those interested my copy seems to be slightly better resolution

Warwick2520Arms.jpg
 
What a brilliant photo this forum has some amazing photo's thanks to all contributers.
 
My Gt Grandfather lived in Nelson St South in 1861, he was a Blacksmith. Could you tell me where Nelson St South was?

Thanks so much

Brian
 
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