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Gate Inn, Icknield Street, earlier listed in Warston Lane

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paul Homer
  • Start date Start date
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Paul Homer

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My GGG-Grandfather Isaac HOMER was the publican of this establishment certainly between 1839 and 1841. His wife was Henrietta HOMER.
Unfortunately it no longer exists and may well have ceased to be a pub in the 19th century.

[Sources: 1839 Robson's Directory and the 1841 Census]

Wish I could have gone for a pint there! :)

Does anyone have further knowledge or interest in this place?
 
Kelly'a 1845 Isaac Homer
do you need any more information than below

182 Warstone Lane, Gate, Isaac Homer
184 Warstone Lane, Butcher, Isaac Homer
184 Warstone Lane, Car proprietor Isaac Homer junior
 
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it appears the the Gate became the Gate Inn and it's Address moved to 183 Icknield street after 1845. 182 Warstone lane was on the corner so the roads must have been altered you would need to browse maps for that period
Isaac Homer junior moved to 161 Icknield street as a car dealer
 
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AH Now youv'e mentioned Icknield St.
 

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What a fantastic response from everyone so far !
And I've only been on the forum for a few hours.

Thank you John H for the entries from the 1845 Kelly's
The butcher Isaac was the publican Isaac's son which I have identified from several other sources including the 1841 census and IGI. However, Isaac junior the car proprieter is a a bit of a mystery but my guess is that he was a butcher AND car propieter.
My GGGF Isaac was living at 161 Icknield Street in 1851. He died there in 1858 and was then an LV again. So he has been a jack of both trades. However, I wiil take this bit of the discussion to another thread.

Wendy, I look forward to seeing the photos.

John Y - Yes I will get around to putting some entries on the name section of which I have quite a few. (MATTHEWS and DORFELL to name but two!)

Rupert - Thank you for finding the map. That explains so much.

Wow! What a great bunch of well informed people. Thank you all
 
Icknield Street East

Does anyone know if the Icknield Street numbering scheme has changed over the last 100+ years?
i.e. If I visited to take a photograph of 161 Icknield Street East would it be the same place as 150 years ago?! (This is the address where my GGGGF Isaac HOMER died in 1858)
 
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Things must have happened in the meantime and I don't know about numbers. In 1890 there was an inn on the corner of Icknield Street and Great Tindal street. The orientation is right but whether this is the place...who knows. The picture on this thread looks later than 1890 to me but the inn may have been rebuilt on the original site and the house next door looks older. However at this intersection Monument Road changed to Icknield Street. I have in mind another place that has been mentioned here and that is the Gate Saltley. Here there was a gate that stopped traffic to collect a toll; to go past and up what is now Allum Rock. Maybe the start of Iknield street was gated to collect tolls for traffic to the Black Country...coal cartage and the like before canals changed all of that. You can go to the map site and select the next map down but I have posted the section below to save you time. So the gate may refer to the Toll Gate. Funny, I used to ride the tram every day past the Gate Saltley and never knew the significance until I saw it here.
Regards.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10089&ox=2622&oy=1389&zm=1&czm=1&x=585&y=258

The toll gate would have been long gone before the 1890 map.
 
Looking at GE Great Tindal Street now ends at Ledsam Street and enters what was Ickneild Street further north. Icknield Street is now called Ladywood Middleway. At the place of the old intersection is now a building in a park like setting. Sometimes an effort is made to retain old names and maybe something there refers to The Gate. Just a few ideas that may be helpful.
 
Had a bit of luck. in the link posted the house of the schools headmaster is 303 Icknield. The school and the house are still there, you can see it on Google Earth. If this number relates back to the old times is not known but the school was there in 1884. So if the number is the same, we are looking for a place 141 numbers south of there. The masters house is under the 'D'.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10087&ox=4151&oy=1616&zm=1&czm=1&x=356&y=61

About a hundred or so down from the school house :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Key_Hill_Cemetery_Gates.jpg

The School and house :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icknield_Street_School
 
Me again. Can't help it I love a treasure hunt.
The map link below shows a cul-de-sac of sorts just north of the cemetry and gates. Posties picture shows what might be a cul-de-sac leading off from Icknield St. The houses further down seem to be out a bit also. Property lines I have found seem to be pretty constant and the little road on the map leading to cemetry lane seems to have the same contours. Bear in mind that the buildings in Posties picture and the map are not contemporary probably but the numbering might be right.
Another possibility.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10087&ox=4246&oy=1676&zm=1&czm=1&x=299&y=429
 
Paul: Put 'Icknield Street' into the Search box, top right of this page and you'll see I posted a thread called Icknield Street Alert about the proposed demolition of some back-to-back houses/shops in Icknield Street. KenH posted a couple of photos of them. They were numbered 111-120 and they (apart from Spring Hill Library) seem to be the only old buildings remaining in the street, all the rest of the street has been redeveloped and I would guess the numbering would have changed - they were mainly back-to-back housing with courts.
Happy hunting!
 
Charlie, is the old school not there now. I do not have the latest Google E. so it may have changed in the last few years.
 
The old school's still there Rupert, and in exactly the same dilapidated state with exactly the same "Sold" board on the front. Maybe it's in the conservation area and they can't get planning permission, so they'll wait til it falls down. Seems to happen a lot these days!
Money rules - NOT OK!
 
the gate icknield st

Yes John Is Right And Thats How I Remember The Gate It Was On Icknield St
If You Walk Up From The Mint Pub It Was On Your Right Hand Side Of Icknield Street If YouWas Heading For Spting hill There Was A Shop Which Sold Furtiture Right Next Door In Fact The Shop Was The ONE The One Next To The Gate And It Was On The Corner Of A Terrace Or It Was Called An Avenue With Cobbled Road And There Was A Row Of Back To Back Houses Up There ,And Afew Doors Up From The Gate Was A Fish And Chip Shop
Ran By A Little Old Stout Lady You Walked Up A COUPLE oF Steps To Walk Into Her Shop The Chips Was Given In A Very Large Grease Proof Paper
And Rhe Chips Was 3d, A Bag She Kept Photo,s On The Wall All Around The Shop The Photo,s Was Of Her Daughter In A Poseing Pose , Very Glamerous
Young Lady If You ASked Her Whom Was The Pictures Was She Would Tell You About Her And ThatsHer Daughter , We Always Refered To The Chippy By The Gate Pub As Mary Airy , For Some Reason My School Friend Lived UPAlong Side The Gate Pub In That Avenue Is Name Ws Georgie Betts
When We Went To Icknield St And We Have Drank In That Pub Many Times After The Pub Was Virtuely Oppersite Pope St , And Of Course Bulpitts Factory And I Remember Mossy Micky Wahab And The VOLCANO GANG
Drinking In There Afew Times With The Trainers When They Was Young
Oh Well Those Were The DAYS BEST WISHES ASTONIAN ,
 
My great grandther, John Harvey Willstrop, was born at 165 Icknield Street in 1850 and was third generation at that address. The address on his older brother's birth certificate in 1840 was 166 Warstone Lane (not sure if this is same place). The family were tailors and drapers. I can see a shop in George's picture of The Gate. I wonder if anyone knows what sort of shop it was?

Penny
Keston
Kent
 
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Nice Photo Postie Of The Gate Brought Back Memory,s
As I Have Said Previosly When You Look At The Photo
And You Walk Up The Side Of The Right Hand Of The Photo
Up That Cobbled Stone Road There Was Some Back To Back Houses Up There And If You Walked About Thirty Paces To The Right Or Should I Say Thirty Paces On The Approach Of That Main Door There Was A Furtiture Shop And He Had Second Hand Bits And Bobs Along The Wall Of The Shop On His Side Of The Road
My Old School Mate Whom I Went To School With At Icknield Street Lived Up That Terrace Also Frank Bartlem, And Georgie Betts, Great Old Friends I Would Dearly Love To Meet Up With Them Along With Vic Sylvester And Terry Hewitt
Vic Became The Manager Ofabutchers Shop On Spring Hill
Next To The Libarymy Auntie Had The Fish And Chip Shop Across Theroad From The Libaryand Across From Walter Smihs The Butchers Keep Them Coming Postie Best Wishes Astonian ,
 
Hi

I was reading your post about the Gate Inn. My grandfather worked here in the 1920's. I believe it was on the corner of Icknield Street and opposite Pope Street.
 
In 1851 my 3x gt Grandfather Thomas Ryland is listed as the licensed victualler of the Gate Inn, I83 Icknield Street EA. I do not know how long he was there for.
key hill brian has very kindly found this 1965 picture for me which shows The Gate, 183 Icknield Street/Alfred's Place that was built in 1888 to replace the earlier Inn. By the time of this photo a turret had been removed. It ceased trading in August 1970.
Does anyone have a map that shows the location of the earlier Inn or a picture of it? Or ANY other information?
Also the earlier address says EA - does this mean East? if so when/why did it change to just Icknield Street?

After much research Brian has also found the grave of Thomas Ryland (died 1863) for me in Warstone lane cemetery - it has a tall obelisk type memorial near the cemetery gates in Icknield Street and we were wondering if this was anywhere near/within sight of where the Inn used to be.
Thanks,
Polly :)
 

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hi pollpops
the gate as you see it is the only place it was built in that period and alfred place is an ajoining terrace that runs up past the pub siding
the little side rd you see running up the side windows of the pub was a little old fashiones side cobbled street which took you up to alfred place
the pub was remoderised in the mid fifties along with the exterior of the building outside and orininaly had big chunkie dark brown window frames that stuck out
they would have been the orininale window frames the one you see now was put in around the early fifties to mid fifties
and where you see the grey car on the right hand part of the picture was a family called the holmes family they was of a national creed like greek or some think like that
and they also had one on coventry rd small heath birmingham
but getting back to the old gate it was an orinale old fashioned dezine in and out side surrounding which would never have been altered since your grand father days it was always dark and dingy inside until they had a make over inside and out
the cem gates are about a mile away from the pub you would not see the gate pub from the cem gates until youhad least walked a hundred yards up the icnield st
you could see the gate pub from the royal mint main gates the pub was up on the oppersite side to the cem, it was with in walking distance beleive me
i knew the pub very well we drank and played dartys in there in my younger days most nights of the week
and the terrace houses that ajoin the pub , alfred place was where my old friend and school friend lived there georgie betts whom if he was a forum member would also tell you the same about the gate pub i was trying to think of the owners of the two little shop on the front of the pub it will come to me later
best wishes astonion
 
Polly
Thomas was there 1848-1858, but was not there 1845 and had gone by 1862. The directories show the Gate as being in exactly the same place in 1884 as in 1895, so I think that it must have just been rebuilt on the same site. One interesting point is that in 1845 it is listed as 183 Warstone lane, so Warstone lane must have curved round and taken in a bit of what is now Icknield st.
Mike
 
hi mike
thats very intresting information given the fact that warstone lane does slightly curve when walking down the wastone laneat the bottom as an interception on to ickneild st
and from that point you could see the gate pub from the bottom of warstone lane and mearly crosing the rd onto the ickneld street section and walking about 100 yards you
are at the gate pub and alfred place i wonder what came first alfred place with its little house or the pub which would have been classed as a inn
also on the point of warstone lane which was just as crossing the road was the red lion pub could that have been the number of that pub in warstone lane
at that period could the emuneraters slipped up so it will be intresting to find some old maps on this subject i think
may be there is maps in the central libbary to check out if what you have said is correct
given in what we know now today and that of those little tiny houses that was to be come the jewerly quartyer which i think was built in he same period of the pub its every possiblebilityyou are correct that warstone lane was built before ickneild st and in time in making the redelemonts to the area they extended ickneild st
have a nice day mike best wishes astonion
 
Astonian
The 1889 map below shows no Alfred place, so the pub came first

map_1889_showing_the_gate_.JPG
 
hi mike
many thanks for showing us all the map for that period and as you have quite rightly showed the map
it looks like ickneild st was born aroundthe same time as itgoes to hockley brook and towards aston and that it comes down from edgbaston direction
as we all kmow edbaston was abit rual in those days and coming down from the ivy bush through lady wood and to spring hill
from the ivy bush to springh il was the monument rd all the way down where it changed its name from monument rd into ickneild street
passing the gate pub and hingestion street all the way down to the hockley brook to get the old six ways hockley brook
and looking at the map there was abig uncultivated area of open space and thats where alfred place was created within that grassed area and next to the gate its shows ablock which i presume was commercial propertyys and thats where the old furtiture shop was brilliant work mike
best wishes to you astonion
 
Thank you Astonian for your memories of the Gate and for explaining where it was in relation to the Cemetery.

Mike, thank you for posting the map and for finding the dates that Thomas Ryland was there - that is great information for my family tree. How interesting that the address used to be Warstone Lane - I wonder if that is why it was known as Icknield Street EA for a while?
Hopefully one day I will find a picture/drawing of the original Inn or of Icknield Street/ Warstone lane around that time.
Polly :)
 
I have found a 1792 map showing Warstone Lane, before Icknield St was cut. It is a lane from the Turnpike Road (Dudley Road to the Warstone. A later map of 1840 shows Icknield St existing from Hockley Brook therough Dudley Road and onwards towards Ladywood proper.
It appears that when it was built the Hockley end was known as Icknield St East, and the other side of Dudley Road up to Reservoir Road was known as Icknield St West.
It obviously swallowed up that portion of Warstone Lane on it's route, hence differant addresses at differant times.
Is it possible that originally the pub was named after a gateway off the Turnpike Rd?
map warstone lane 1792.jpg
 
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Brian
I think the first building on the 1840 map corresponds to the long building in red on the 1839 map below. This has disappeared by 1889 in the map on post 5 above. There is a smaller building nearer the road on the 1839 map (in green). There is still a builing in the same place on the 1889 map, but it has changed its shape. this would correspond to the rebuilding of the Gate around 1888 on the same site.
I think the giles brewery on the 1792 map corresponds to the Warstone lane brewery on the 1839 map.
mike

1839_map_showing_the_gate_and_brewery.jpg
 
mikejee said:
Brian
I think the first building on the 1840 map corresponds to the long building in red on the 1839 map below. This has disappeared by 1889 in the map on post 5 above. There is a smaller building nearer the road on the 1839 map (in green). There is still a builing in the same place on the 1889 map, but it has changed its shape. this would correspond to the rebuilding of the Gate around 1888 on the same site.
I think the giles brewery on the 1792 map corresponds to the Warstone lane brewery on the 1839 map.
mike
Click to expand...
PeterHomer.My 3G Grandfather was publican of the Gate Inn-Warstone Lane from approx 1830-1848. He was mentioned in the Birmingham Gazette in 1832 as selling ardent spirits without a license and was fined £7 pounds and 10 shillings.This must have been a fortune in 1832.I am trying to find out more info on the Gate Inn plus maps and pictures.In 1848 he moved to Icknield St and was listed as Car owner (carriage) plus shop keeper. Can anyone help with more info. Thanks Peter Homer
 
Peter
I have reposted the two maps earlier in the thread
Are you sure you are completely correct in the above, as the Isaac Homer car proprietor is listed in the 1845 directories as Isaac Homer junior, presumably the son
of the licensee. The information I have from the directories is::

Not listed in West’s 1830 directory
1833 Homer Isaac, shopkeeper aud retail brewer, Warstone-lane
1839 Homer Isaac, victualler., Warstone lane
1841 Homer Isaac, victualler. Gate, and butcher, Warstone lane
1845 Homer Isaac, butcher ,184 Warston Lane & Gate, 183 Warston Lane
1845 Homer Isaac, jun., car proprietor, 184 Warston lane
1849 Homer Isaac, cab proprietor, Icknield street east
(in 1849 the Gate is now run by Thomas Ryland)
1855 Isaac not listed
Mike
 
Hello Peter and welcome to the forum :adoration: from the directory list that Mike has posted above it seems that my 3x Gt Grandfather took over the gate from your 3 x Gt Grandfather - what a coincidence!

I am still searching for a picture of the original Gate Inn or Warstone Lane/ Icknield Street around those years but so far no luck.

I do have a picture of the gate in 1965 that Brian found for me - it was on post #1 - I will try and find it and put it back on. Unfortunately my Laptop had to be repaired and all my picture/files were removed from it. I am in the process of trying to get them all back on my laptop again and then I will re-post them on the forum.

I think I had a newspaper advert/clipping for the Gate but I can't remember what year it was for - I will look for that too.

If I do manage to find anything I will certainly share it with you.

Out of interest does anyone know if they would have owned the pub building in those days - I have always assumed Thomas did own it but I have just realised I don't know for definite.
 
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