Finding parents or birth place

[rickfraser]

Looking for new ideas...

I am stuck on trying to trace one ancestor - John Fraser. He appears is 1841 census in Essex St, Birmingham along with wife and children, showing only that he came from Scotland. He died of dysentary in 1847 in Inge Street so no additional birth information from the 1851 census, although the rest of the family are still around then.

He was a bookbinder by trade and I am pretty sure I know where he carried out his work, along with some partners ("Fullewood, Watt & Fraser" ) at 29 Ann https://www.ancestry.co.uk/facts/inge-family-history.ashx Street,Birminghamhttps://www.ancestry.co.uk/facts/uk-family-history.ashx. This was probably though just a house rather than a shop. It no longer exists but was probably one of the "back to backs" of the mid 1800s.

Local Birmingham govt tells me that this type of trade was unlicenced so can offer me no extra information.

The marriage registration was by Banns and says he was "of this parish" unfortunately. So, no extra clues here either.

To be able to find his parents I need something that will tell me 'where' in Scotland he was from, or something that actually tells me his parents.

Unfortunately he has a very common name and I have found lots of possible births in his name, assuming he knew how old he actually was when the 1841 census was completed. Even if I look at each of these possibilities I still will not know for certain which one is correct - unless I trace every one that is not correct, leaving me just the one!

I have even googled for him in case someone else knew something that I couldn't find out so far.

So, is there someone who can please steer me to some other research area where I might find what I am looking for?

 

[Bojalu]

Yes there are a lot of John FRASER's christened in Scotland and I am afraid that the search is bigger than you thought , you will need to look for variations of surname - FRAZIER , FRAISER.

Family History is about finding out who is not your family in order to find out who is.
I dont envy your mammoth task.
Hoewever you can narrow down your search by General naming patterns.
I Will list later.

Children of John & Martha FRAZER / FRAZIER - nee Hunt
Occ: BOOK BINDER on all Christening Cert's- originals
Christening - St Matins , Birmingham

Mary Isabella FRAZIER
b-2nd Dec 1830
c- 5th April 1831
Add: Cheapside, B'ham

Martha Mary Ann FRASER
b 12 March 1833
31st Mat 1833
Add: St Matins Lane

John Joseph FRAZIER
b- 11 Aug 1835
c- 28th Feb 1837
Add: Sun Street

Robert FRASER
b 20th Aug 1838
c 23 Nov 1840
Add: Essex Street

Ann Matilda FRASER/ FRAZIER
9th Sept 1844
13th Jan 1845
Add: Inge Street

Regards,
Bo

 

[Bojalu]

General Naming Patterns-
This was not a rule but may help you in narrowing down your search for John Parents.

Scottish

1st- Son was named after his father's father
2nd- Son """"""""""""""""""""""""""""Mothers Father
3rd - Son """""""""""""""""after his father

1st Dau Named after Mother's mother
2nd Dau """"""""""""""""Father's Mother
3rd Dau named after her Mother
Other daughters names after Family Members


General naming patterns

1st Son named after Father's father
2nd Son " Mother Father
3rd Son " Father
4th Son " Father's older Brother
5th Son " Father's 2nd Brother or Mother's oldest Brother

1st Dau named after Mother's Mother
2nd Dau " Father's Mother
3rd Dau named after Mother
4th Dau " Mother's eldest sister
5th Dau " Mother's eldest sister or father's oldest sister

Bo

 

[Shera]

hello rick, not an answer to your question but have found these at st. martins church

martha mary ann fraser born 12 mar 1833 baptised 31 may 1833 parents john and martha . abode. st. martins lane. bookbinder

robert fraser b. 20 aug 1838 baptised 23 nov 1840 parents john and martha. abode essex street. bookbinder.

ann matilda fraser b. 9 sep 1844 baptised 13 jan 1845 parents john and martha. abode inge street. bookbinder.

sorry bojalu, just realised you have already given this info. silly me!

 

[rickfraser]

Thanks Bojalu/Shera for your replies - and time!

I already had these children but you have confirmed them for me and provided some extra information on each of them - again thankyou. Where did you get that info without sending off for the certificates? Can I get copies for my Family History folio please?

Thanks for the naming conventions too Bojalu. I rather thought that my John's father would be named John too - as it happens my line back to that point was all Johns. However, it could be my John was the second son - or any really - so I cannot simply assume his father was called John too. That's why I need to 'prove' his parentage or at least place of birth to narrow it down.

My father's elder brother was the last John in my part of the tree but he had 2 daughters. My parents (born in England) didn't carry out this type of naming convention.

I thought that perhaps his father might also be a book binder but have no proof of that so cannot presume it (unless I can tie some other supporting evidence).

In my Family History research the census and birth certificates have given me the place of birth but the 1841 census and marriage info for John don't give that or his parents. What I need is somewhere else where this might also have been recorded (hence my enquiry to Birmingham local govt about licencing). Trouble is I don't know just what those "somewhere elses" are. Any ideas?

Since John and Martha had their children christened maybe that indicates they were 'church goers' - would the church maybe have recorded anywhere the kind of info I am looking for? Or upon his death would some entry have been made somewhere lamenting the passing other than just the clinical death certificate?