As it's Burn's a Night tonight here's a Birmingham connection with the great poet. Viv.
-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
David Blair gunmaker Birmingham & Robert Burns
- Thread starter Vivienne14
- Start date
Thanks Mike. Burns must have been quite good friends with Blair. He's mentioned again here in an extract from the cobblerplus.com website about whiskey. Viv.
"Ferintosh whisky is mentioned again by Burns in a letter to David Blair, a gun maker. The letter talks about a durk (a dagger), which Blair had in his possession at the time of writing, but which originally belonged to Lord Balmerino. Burns describes the wanderings of the durk and how it was sold to a friend of his for an anker of Ferintosh whisky a number of years ago".
"Ferintosh whisky is mentioned again by Burns in a letter to David Blair, a gun maker. The letter talks about a durk (a dagger), which Blair had in his possession at the time of writing, but which originally belonged to Lord Balmerino. Burns describes the wanderings of the durk and how it was sold to a friend of his for an anker of Ferintosh whisky a number of years ago".
Not necessarily a different letter to one mentioned in the first post.
Yes Wam. And I think the details in the whiskey quote suggests they were quite good friends. Viv.
B
BernardR
Guest
What a coincidence Viv - Only this weekend I discovered a piece of work that relates to a direct ancestor of mine [Thomas Gill] that mentions David Blair. Here is an extract and also a link to a piece by Chris Upton.
This is very interesting Bernard! Blair was a member of the Birmingham Society of Constitutional Information and I presume (if I've got the gist of this) he'd have been opposed to the monarchy. And might, therefore have had a connection with sending arms to Scotland (and maybe Ireland and France ?). His business and political interests (as well as his close excise connections e.g Robbie Burns) would surely have made him a valuable supplier of arms in this context ?
Here's an extract from "Experience and Identity, Birmingham and the West Midlands 1760 - 1800".
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!
Viv
Here's an extract from "Experience and Identity, Birmingham and the West Midlands 1760 - 1800".
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!
Viv
B
BernardR
Guest
No Viv pretty well bang on. A different publication I read stated that my ancestor was accused of supplying Daggers or Dirks for the Jacobites. This seems to have been the same claim.
An interesting aspect of your family history Bernard. Given the number of gunsmiths and swordsmiths in Birmingham at the time I expect it was something which manufacturers would have had to deal with. Or as the last article suggests, some might have chosen to ignore the purpose to which their arms were put. Viv.
Think these might be the pistols referred to in extract in the first post. They are two pistols Burns used in his work as excise officer (from the National Trust for Scotland website). Can anyone detect if they were made in Birmingham? And by David Blair? The article in post #1 suggests they might have been manufactured by Blair. Viv.
The Jacobite connection to the dagger works but it's unlikely that one person who supplied the Jacobites would also be supplying the French Revolutionaries. The two are over 40 years apart. If the dagger was owned by the last Lord Balmerino(ch) who lost his title in the last Jacobite uprising in 1746 then Burns could just have been confirming the fact. The letter may just have been tracing provenance. As to the exchange of poems, it could be that Blair was one of Burns' subscribers. On the other hand, the Upton piece suggests that Blair had come from Dumfries which is where Burns lived at the time of the letters and, although Burns had only recently moved there and Blair hadn't lived there for some time, there could have been a personal connection because of it.
Curiouser and curiouser. A search for pistols at the Burns Museum site https://www.burnsmuseum.org.uk/collections/search?searchKeywords=pistols&searchCollectionArea=none&searchType=none&searchDate=none&searchPerson=none Turns up two results. The one shown above and a pair of duelling pistols given by Burns to his doctor William Maxwell. Maxwell also turns up in the Upton article mentioned above as the fund-raiser for the revolutionaries. Although it is unlikely that this is the same man (the one in Upton lived in London and Burns doctor would have been in Dumfries) it's still an odd co-incidence. Those who might help to identify the excise pistols might get a better idea from https://www.burnsmuseum.org.uk/collections/transcript/2353 which is the first of 5 images of the pistols later images (click next) show close-ups of the lock (decorated with some kind of pattern) and the barrel (hexagonal on the outside).
Hi Wam. Very intriguing. Also I think there are differences in whether Dr Maxwell was given Burns's duelling pistols or his excise pistols. Viv.
Thank you Vivienne. The David Blair link with Robert Burns certainly turns out to be an interesting story - I've unearthed a bit more detail and summarised it, along with references, here: https://docdro.id/O1gsxcy
Welcome Neil. I'm sure you'll get the hang of the site in time. If you need help with particular things, please just ask. We all have to start somewhere.
i'd like to say a big thank you for your document. How very interesting. I find the French Revolution aspects fascinating. The view in this country at the time was one of real fear that this could happen here and I expect any business suspected of supplying the revolutionaries would be viewed with real suspicion. It does make me wonder the extent of sympathisers amongst Birmingham sword and gun makers of the time. Or was it, for them, just another opportunity to make more money? Thank you very much for posting an interesting piece of work. Viv.
i'd like to say a big thank you for your document. How very interesting. I find the French Revolution aspects fascinating. The view in this country at the time was one of real fear that this could happen here and I expect any business suspected of supplying the revolutionaries would be viewed with real suspicion. It does make me wonder the extent of sympathisers amongst Birmingham sword and gun makers of the time. Or was it, for them, just another opportunity to make more money? Thank you very much for posting an interesting piece of work. Viv.
Last edited:
Thanks for being so encouraging Viv! However I think you might be being a bit harsh on those who saw merit and applicability in Tom Paine's ideas.
The Birmingham Constitutional Society seems to have been one supported by the owners of actual working companies. Yes they were less sophisticated than the Lunar Society membership but their beliefs don't seem to me to have been dissimilar -
after all the Priestly riots might very well have been orchestrated by the government via their various spies etc.It seems to me that it was the government who feared a re-enactment of the French revolution in England and took measures to suppress any likelihood of it and assemble appropriate support.
Equally, at the time, they suppressed any movement that argued for constitutional reform. Burke's dagger charade in Parliament shows just how hysterical feelings really were at that level.
The letter signed by Blair and his associates - who included shoemakers and bakers- produced in evidence at the trial of Thomas Hardy (who was vindicated of treason by the jury) - is interesting in that respect and you can view it HERE.
The Birmingham Constitutional Society seems to have been one supported by the owners of actual working companies. Yes they were less sophisticated than the Lunar Society membership but their beliefs don't seem to me to have been dissimilar -
after all the Priestly riots might very well have been orchestrated by the government via their various spies etc.It seems to me that it was the government who feared a re-enactment of the French revolution in England and took measures to suppress any likelihood of it and assemble appropriate support.
Equally, at the time, they suppressed any movement that argued for constitutional reform. Burke's dagger charade in Parliament shows just how hysterical feelings really were at that level.
The letter signed by Blair and his associates - who included shoemakers and bakers- produced in evidence at the trial of Thomas Hardy (who was vindicated of treason by the jury) - is interesting in that respect and you can view it HERE.
Thanks Neil. I'd always imagined the horrors being played out across the Channel made people here think twice about supporting revolution, despite the ideology. Viv.
Yes I agree with you about that Viv. When Wordsworth literally walked over the Alps into the Revolution the idea seemed heady to him but in later years when the reality of the violence that was unleashed became clear
he seemed to back off! I suppose there were many who found themselves in a similar boat. Or were they just older and more conservative!
he seemed to back off! I suppose there were many who found themselves in a similar boat. Or were they just older and more conservative!