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Daniel Hawkes

RRJ

RRJ

Brummie Boomer
A brickwaller for the experts.

I'm following back the Hawkes male line using FMP. I was hoping with the purchase of William James Hawkes birth cert PDF that I could get back another generation. Not only can I not find a Hawkes/Bartlett marriage record but also no census records for his father Daniel Hawkes.

Any Help greatly appreciated!

Screenshot (179).png
 
Daniel with family is on Longmore St in 1861. A widower in 1871 with in laws, Thomas & Susannah Timms.

Daniel's birthplace is different on both. Eldest child is listed with mmn Timms but Samuel has mmn Batlett.

I would suspect that his mother in law re-married to Timms but will look further.
 
A couple of observations on the 1871 census.

I think Daniel's birthplace, as mentioned, is wrong.
Arthur D Hawkes was registered as Daniel and it is he that has mmn Timms.
The third grandson, George Ashton, was possibly reg. with mmn Strong and there is a marriage for Daniel Hawkes to an Elizabeth Strong in 1860.

I'm not sure how that last one relates.
 
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Many thanks Mark & Lyn

What's infuriating is I'm searching the census records for Daniel Hawkes in Birmingham which comes up with nothing. Then prompted by Marks
'address' census search for 1861/1871 there he is.
 
RRJ said:
So these could be Daniels parents?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think so.

I also think I've found something that connects the Susannah on the 1871 census to the 1860 marriage.

In 1821 a Robert Strong married a Susannah Avern. There is a baptism for a Susannah Avern in 1803 which means her age in 1871 is slightly out but nothing significant.

Still not sure where the Bartlett name comes in yet, unless Susannah 'married' to a Bartlett and Elizabeth was his daughter.
 
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Yes I saw the 'Strong' marriage but discounted it at the time.

Siblings of William James Hawkes.. Hawkes/ Bartlett

James 1856
Samuel 1859

Strange no marriage record.
 
RRJ said:
Yes I saw the 'Strong' marriage but discounted it at the time.

Siblings of William James Hawkes.. Hawkes/ Bartlett

James 1856
Samuel 1859

Strange no marriage record.
Click to expand...

I think the Hawkes/Strong marriage is your one. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence for it...

Not many Daniel Hawkes, the 1871 cenus, the eldest child having mmn Timms, the Ashton/Strong grandson.

If so it would suggest that Daniel and Elizabeth were together some years before they married (not uncommon) and that Susannah was with Thomas Timms before the birth of Daniel and Elizabeth's first child.

The marriage is on Ancestry if someone could check the details it might help.

Susannah is quite elusive unfortunately
 
Astoness said:
hi bob not sure if you are on ancestry but if not and you need anymore census years let me know

lyn
Click to expand...
Thank you Lyn. no I'm not on Ancestry. I'm doing this as a 'free favour' for my sister in law. With a months FMP sub and a PDF order the 'favour' is already £33 :joy:

What I will ask is do they have prison mugshots on Ancestry? her other grandfather got 4 months hard labour (B,ham) in 1936.
 
MWS said:
I think the Hawkes/Strong marriage is your one. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence for it...

Not many Daniel Hawkes, the 1871 cenus, the eldest child having mmn Timms, the Ashton/Strong grandson.

If so it would suggest that Daniel and Elizabeth were together some years before they married (not uncommon) and that Susannah was with Thomas Timms before the birth of Daniel and Elizabeth's first child.

The marriage is on Ancestry if someone could check the details it might help.

Susannah is quite elusive unfortunately
Click to expand...
Yes it's a complicated one for sure Mark.

Many thanks for yours and Lyn's help in getting through this one! Team BHF does it again!!
 
right ok bob always happy to help...yes there are some mug shots on ancestry and janice is quite good at finding that info...we would need a name please and there could even be something in the newspapers archives online to which a couple of our members are subscribed so maybe able to do a search for you..just as an extra ancestry shows up a newspaper report for a daniel hawkes in 1868 birm..i have asked mike to see if he can find it as it could be your daniel...will get back if it is

lyn
 
Astoness said:
right ok bob always happy to help...yes there are some mug shots on ancestry and janice is quite good at finding that info...we would need a name please and there could even be something in the newspapers archives online to which a couple of our members are subscribed so maybe able to do a search for you..just as an extra ancestry shows up a newspaper report for a daniel hawkes in 1868 birm..i have asked mike to see if he can find it as it could be your daniel...will get back if it is

lyn
Click to expand...

Birmingham Post, June 1868.

IMG_2713.jpeg
 
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Astoness said:
right ok bob always happy to help...yes there are some mug shots on ancestry and janice is quite good at finding that info...we would need a name please and there could even be something in the newspapers archives online to which a couple of our members are subscribed so maybe able to do a search for you..just as an extra ancestry shows up a newspaper report for a daniel hawkes in 1868 birm..i have asked mike to see if he can find it as it could be your daniel...will get back if it is

lyn
Click to expand...
I don't want to take this thread off topic but here's the news item. Bernard Hunt.

Birmingham_Daily_Gazette_25_April_1936_0005_Clip.jpg
 
so bob if i have this correct we now have 3 generations of daniel hawkes..in order

daniel hawkes born 1864
daniel hawkes born 1829
daniel hawkes born 1806..this is providing the below 1841 census is correct i am posting the transcription and the written census

lyn




Daniel Hawkes
35
abt 1806
Male
Gloucestershire, England
Uley
Berkeley (Upper Division)
Gloucestershire
England
Dursley
Uley

[th width="176.471px"]
Name

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Age

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Estimated Birth Year

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Gender

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Where born

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Civil parish

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Hundr





​



GLSHO107_347_348-0337.jpg
 
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Astoness said:
so bob if i have this correct we now have 3 generations of daniel hawkes..in order

daniel hawkes born 1864
daniel hawkes born 1829
daniel hawkes born 1806..this is providing the below 1841 census is correct i am posting the transcription and the written census

lyn




Daniel Hawkes
35
abt 1806
Male
Gloucestershire, England
Uley
Berkeley (Upper Division)
Gloucestershire
England
Dursley
Uley

[th width="176.471px"]
Name

[/th]
[th width="176.471px"]
Age

[/th]

[th width="176.471px"]

Estimated Birth Year



[/th]

[th width="176.471px"]

Gender



[/th]

[th width="176.471px"]

Where born



[/th]

[th width="176.471px"]

Civil parish



[/th]

[th width="176.471px"]

Hundr











​



View attachment 196034
Click to expand...

I have two Lyn
Daniel Hawkes b: 27/10/1799 ( Gloucester) marries: Ann Smith 22/05/1822 ( Gloucester) move to B,ham between 1851-1861
Daniel Hawkes b: 1829 (Gloucester)
 
Pedrocut said:
Birmingham Post, June 1868.

View attachment 196032
Click to expand...
thanks pedro that was the snippet i was looking at..however if we are correct i dont think its our daniel hawkes ..the date of the snippet is 1868 it says daniel had recently come of age so he would have been born about 1847 and none of our daniel hawkes was born then...also in this snippet it says daniel was a farmer so wrong occuption


thumbnail - 2024-10-22T152027.618.jpg
 
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RRJ said:
I have two Lyn
Daniel Hawkes b: 27/10/1799 ( Gloucester) marries: Ann Smith 22/05/1822 ( Gloucester) move to B,ham between 1851-1861
Daniel Hawkes b: 1829 (Gloucester)
Click to expand...
dont forget the one born 1864 see my post 21

lyn
 
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I have found a Bartlett/Avern birth reg. Thomas Dec 1843 Bham and a burial for a Robert Strong in 1835 Bham, aged 34.

So my tentative timeline would be...

Robert Strong (b1801) married Susannah Avern (b1803) married in 1821.
They had a number of children including a Mary Ann (b1828ish) named after a dead sister.
Robert Strong died in 1835.
Sometime between 1835 and 1842 Susannah took up with a man named Bartlett.
They had a son, Thomas (b1843), and possibly other children, including Elizabeth, though her father could be someone else.
Mary Ann Strong married a George Ashton in 1850 and they had 2 sons, George (b1852) and James (b1853).
George Ashton died in 1854.
Sometime between 1843 and 1854 Susannah took up with a Thomas Timms.
Sometime before 1854 Elizabeth Strong/Bartlett took up with Daniel Hawkes and they married in 1860.
Daniel and Elizabeth had a number of children, reg. as Hawkes/Timms or Hawkes/Bartlett.
Elizabeth dies sometime between 1864 and 1871, possibly 1866.
Tying all that together is the 1871 census where Daniel, a widower, is with Thomas and Susannah Timms with 2 sons and also there is George Ashton, the son of Elizabeth's sister Mary Ann.

Saying all that there are a number of gaps. Finding Susannah on other censuses might help. I thought I'd found her in 1841 but I'm not sure.
 
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Well what a tangled web! I appreciate you've gone above and beyond here Mark. Doesn't help that these people aren't playing exactly by the rules. :eek: At least I now know why William James Hawkes mother is down as Bartlett. Great sleuthing Mark, many thanks.
 
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