Cooks of Newtown

[Darthdc]

I'm trying to solve a mystery that has been bugging me since I started my family tree.
My grandfather, Thomas Cook (died 1952) was born 16/03/1898 as far as my dad and his older siblings are concerned. However, no record of this date as his DOB exists except for a baptism I found from St James, Ashted. This gives his full name as Thomas Edward Cook, with parents Thomas and Esther, living at 42 Cromwell St
His marriage to Ellen Hunt in 1919 is witnessed by Thomas Cook (father) and Leah Cook (believed to be his sister)
Leah marries a fortnight later. My granddad acts as witness to her marriage. The home addresses on both marriage certificates are identical (9ct 9h Hospital St), thus strengthening the family connections.
Leah has turned up on the 1911 census with a Thomas and Esther as parents, living on the fringes of Aston, but with no sign at all of a brother called Thomas. My grandparent's first child is registered whilst they are living at 46 Cecil St - the voting lists show a Thomas and Esther Cook living there. This Thomas and Esther remain there for the next few years whilst my grandparents moved to 116 New Summer St (they show up here on the voting lists around 1925, though they had their second child there in 1923).
So the problems I'm having are: my granddad's birth certificate appears to be non existant; why doesn't he appear on the 1911; none of them appear on the 1901. It appears as though his father also had the middle name of Edward. (I have considered whether he put his name down on my aunt's birth certificate, as the job description fits)

 

[mikejee]

It isn't just that thomas cook's parents don't appear on the 1901 census, the address they gave (42 Cromwell st) doesn't either, Unfortunately ithe house before was the last on that side of the street in that distrct, and the one the other side was the first in a different district. It may be that it was accidentally missed out because each districts enumerator thought the other was doing it. however i think that unlikely , as the boundary of the two districts was oliver street, with the White Hart pub on one corner. Also no electoral roll lists no 42 cromwell st (except for one in 1868). It dowsn't seem to be listed in any directory i could see, though that doesn't mean much. So it may be that the number didn't exist and they gave a false address.
Of course this isn’t much help in finding them !
Mike

 

[Darthdc]

I have noticed that. The 1911 census shows Leah as the eldest (born circa 1899/1900 with an age of 11). It does show that Thomas and Esther had completed 14 years of marriage, meaning that the year of marriage was around 1896/97, ample time to have a child in 1898. Their address at the time was 9 Matlock Place, Holdford Rd, Handsworth (though it's nearer Aston).
Ages don't appear to mean anything either because I've got a number of errors. My gt grandmother on my nan's side has only aged 9 years on the 1911 census (she was 40 in 1901 and 49 in 1911) and her first daughter (gt aunt) was listed as being 25 on her marriage certificate in January 1924, despite being born December 1896. Leah is listed as being 21 in 1919 (2 years older than her 1911 census age.)

 

[Alberta]

Your grandfathers death in 1952 gives his age 54,this ties in with his birth being 1898.
As his birthday was 16th March he was probably registered in the next qtr,Apr/May/June,there i an entry in that qtr for Thomas Cook,
reference Volume 6d page 94.
You can send to Birmingham by post,cost £7 or the GRO online
www.gro.gov.uk
If you give the criteria that mother must be Esther you will not have to pay if it is not your grandfather.

 

[Darthdc]

I have already tried at Birmingham Register Office - there is no certificate for a Thomas Cook, born 16/03/1898. His death certificate shows he died 13/08/1952. His widow being the informant. I'm gonna see if Leah's birth certificate exists. The 1911 states Church Rd, Warwickshire (the transcript says Aston).

 

[Reg Cook]

I've a similar problem, A brick wall that just won't go away. it involves my Great Great Grandfather, William Cook. I know nothing at all of his origins. What little information I do have, is. He was a Widower when he married, Hephzibah Goode, n'ee Townsend, on the 24th June 1855, in St' Philips. at the age of 43, a labourer living in Bull street. His fathers name is given as Joseph Cook. The witnesses are Hephzibah's brother, Edwin Townsend, and Jane Townsend. So there's no clue as to any of William's family members, other than his father.

I have his death certificate, 8th July 1858, 3 Wharf street, Aston. age 47. A coal wharf labourer. Has anyone any ideas how to break down a brick wall.

 

[ladylinda]

Hi Darthdc,Looking at the 1911 census, Esther states she has had 6 children,all born alive and still living,and there are 6 children listed.
If you follow Alberta's advice,it may turn out that his actual date of birth wasn't 16/3 and he'd been celebrating his birthday on the wrong date for a number of years! This happened with my Gran,and we only found out after she died!
As Alberta said "If you give the criteria that mother must be Esther you will not have to pay if it is not your grandfather."
(just include the year,quarter,volume and page numbers)

 

[Darthdc]

I did get one birth certificate for a Thomas ALBERT Cook, parents Thomas and Esther. born 23/03/1898. My grandfather was apparently Thomas Edward Cook. The baptism I have for Thomas Edward Cook is dated 16/03/1898 for birth and 02/04/1898 for baptism. The birth was registered after then. Both my grandfather and Leah were living at 9ct 9 Hospital St in August 1919. Leah acts as witness to Thomas's marriage to Ellen Hunt on the 4th. Leah then marries Edwin Murray on the 19th. Ellen Hunt was also living at this address, though I think she was still with her parents in Gosta Green. The voting lists don't show any Cooks living at 9ct 9 Hospital St.
I have found a William Cook marrying in 1928 with a Thomas Cook for the father. Marriage at St Georges, address 43 Hospital St. Leah and Edwin Murray lived at that address in the 1920's.
The 1911 has also showed another sibling of my grandmother Ellen Hunt, who was born and died between 1901 and 1911. No idea who though.

 

[ladylinda]

Hi there,what a puzzle!
On Thomas's marriage cert to Ellen Hunt,what is Thomas senior's occupation? Just think it may help to narrow things down a bit?

 

[Darthdc]

This actually poses another puzzle. Thomas Cook snr is listed as a Plasterer's Labourer. My grandfather is listed as a cycle worker. On the birth certificate of Ellen Rose Cook (19/02/1922), their first born child, it is the only document other than the baptism record that states my grandfather's name in full. It also states him as being a plasterers labourer. Ellen Rose was born at Loveday St hospital, with the home address being 46 Cecil St. A Thomas Edward Cook and Esther Cook are shown at that address on the voting lists for that period. My grandparents had moved to 116 New Summer St, by the time second daughter Alice Mary was born in December 1923. Theres no sign of my grandparents living there until 1926 on the voting lists. They lived at 116 until June 1939. They had 8 children between 1922 and 1937, 3 of whom died in infancy. They moved to Tyseley and had twins in August 1939 and my dad arrived in 1942. My grandfather's occupation was listed as general labourer on all subsequent certificates. My dad had not long turned 10 when he died. Cause of death being a brain haemorrhage and kidney failure.
I believe that there was a bike shop at 45/46 Cecil St at the time, thus potentially proving the occupation of my grandfather. I'm just puzzled that my great-grandfather may have been listed as the father on my aunt Rose's birth certificate (most knew her by her middle name). Ellen Rose Brown died in 1999. I just wish I'd quizzed her when I had the chance, though I've only been doing my family tree since 2006. I have tried looking for employment details for my grandfather but all NI records from that time have been destroyed. He worked for Reynalds Tubes in Tyseley for a few years but the records for them have gone. All I definately know about him is that he died in 1952 and now lies in Yardley Cemetary.