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Colmore Street & Lionel Street 1841

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I've found a map circa of that time, but difficult to read.

Can any of you folks help

Ray (my visitor message is well meant)
 
What is the problem? In 1839 Colmore Street was a quiet street running parallel with New Street, on the site of today's New Street station, roughly between the present Smith's shop by the concourse to Worcester Street, and it would have been cleared during the 1840s to build the original station, which was opened in 1853. I attach a copy of my map which should explain things a little better.
The name Colmore Row existed, but at first it only referred to the part next to St. Philip's Church. The bit going west to the Town Hall was called Ann Street (formerly Mount Pleasant), and the easterly end was called Monmouth Street (formerly Bull Lane).
Lionel Street is clearly shown on the 1839 map, on exactly the same site as it is today.
Best Wishes,
Peter
 
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Lionel St ran parallel with Great Charles St & Colmore Row, but would have been off the above map.
I did try to post a long link for Mapseeker to Colmore & Lionel, but BHF did not like it. The short link is:
https://mapseeker.co.uk/
If you search for Birmingham you will see that there are maps for various years and that by clicking on particular areas it is possible to view greater detail.
 
Thank you both, very helpful. We hope to return back to B'ham next year. Do you know if the library will have a street map of then showing numbers of abodes in above streets?

Ray
 
Ray,
You may need three things - census returns, directories and street maps for moreorless the same year to pinpoint the location you are searching for. House numbers in those days tended to change quite often, and I have heard that in those days, the numbers were just chalked on each building by the officials, but I can't vouch for that.
If you can tell us the numbers of the properties, one of us addicts may be able to pinpoint the location on the map. I have a straight CD visual copy of the 1841 census returns, which is hard to follow. But there may well be a transcribed text or database version somewhere, which would be easier to search.
If you give us the full address, the date and the name of the person concerned, I think somebody here can save you a lot of time.
All the best,
Peter
 
The first, and only, directory I have that lists occupants by street in order and includes Colmore St is the 1845 PostOffice directory, and this does not make it clear which side of the road the buildings are. The 1841 census may enable a position to be found. The 1849 directory does not list Lionel street . Lionel st has later directories to correlate with and it should be possible to correlate the building to the maps easily if we have a number or possibly just a name.
Mike
 
Thanks to you all.

All I have pointed to from Mike in another thread is:

1851 census - 102 Lionel Street - head John Slater, wife Betsy Slater
1841 census - Colmore Street - head Richard Mansell - wife Lucy Mansell

Ray
 
Ray
Have gone into 102 Lionel St by looking at the directories and maps available. John Slater is listed in the 1855 Post office directory and the 1858 Dix directory as being at 102 Lionel St. No 102 was on the south side of the street between Newhall St and Ludgate Hill. I have attached a copy of the 1890 map with what I am pretty sure is no 102 marked in red. the corner plot with Ludgate hill is definitely 111, and the Varnish works is 107-108 (though it is not completely clear which building is the Varnish works !). At that time buildings were expected to last (even if they were not built very well in some cases). No 102 seems to have been demolished just after the turn of the century (the 1902-1911 map shows a blank space), so i think it reasonable to think the plan of the immediate area might have been the same in the 1890 map to 1851.
Mike


map_c_1889_showing_probable_position_of_no_102_Lionel_st.jpg
 
Sorry. Have corrected my earlier post. it should have said (and does now) "The 1849 directory does not list Colmore St" and not "The 1849 directory does not list Lionel St".
mike
 
Hi Mikejee

A bit off-topic but as we're discussing Lionel Street... :-)

Samuel Thornley's varnish works was at 3-5 Lionel Street from 1797. From about 1840, Postan's was at 19 and Meredith's was at 107-8 which was near the junction with Ludgate Hill.

This is an old print of Samuel Thornley's works.

LionelWorks2.gif


Samuel Thornley's became Thornley and Knight when his brother-in-law joined the business 1803, moving to Bordesley Green in 1904, which ties in with your suggestion of much clearance of the area around that time.
 
mikejee said:
Ray
Have gone into 102 Lionel St by looking at the directories and maps available. John Slater is listed in the 1855 Post office directory and the 1858 Dix directory as being at 102 Lionel St. No 102 was on the south side of the street between Newhall St and Ludgate Hill. I have attached a copy of the 1890 map with what I am pretty sure is no 102 marked in red. the corner plot with Ludgate hill is definitely 111, and the Varnish works is 107-108 (though it is not completely clear which building is the Varnish works !). At that time buildings were expected to last (even if they were not built very well in some cases). No 102 seems to have been demolished just after the turn of the century (the 1902-1911 map shows a blank space), so i think it reasonable to think the plan of the immediate area might have been the same in the 1890 map to 1851.
Mike


map_c_1889_showing_probable_position_of_no_102_Lionel_st.jpg
Click to expand...
As always, I am late to the discussion , fascinating to see 102 Lionel street in discussion..my great grandmother Amy Parker was living with her parents in court 17 ( I presume behind) 102 Lionel street in 1881 census ..I can attach census records for the street if anyone wishes
 
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