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Clarke / Perry Family -- New Zealand / Shenstone

  • Thread starter Thread starter ian_george
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ian_george

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I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me figure out why great grandmother's family left the Birmingham area for New Zealand in about 1855 and returned back to Birmingham area in about 1873.

There are also some little wrinkles that are making this extra tricky.
Anyone up for a puzzle?

The clearest place to start is 1881 census record for Footherley, Shenstone household of Thomas George.

It shows Thomas living with his new wife Harriet (nee Clarke) and her family:

1881 England Census
about Thomas George


Name:Thomas GeorgeAge:25 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1856 Relation:Head Spouse's Name:HarrietGender:MaleWhere born:Middleton, Warwickshire, EnglandCivil Parish:Shenstone County/Island:Staffordshire Country:England Street address:FootherleyCondition as to marriage:MarriedEducation:

Employment status:
bracketS.png

View Image
Occupation:Farmer Of 14 AcresRegistration district:Lichfield Sub registration district:Lichfield ED, institution, or vessel:28 Neighbors:View others on page Household Members:NameAgeAdelaide Clarke46 Adelaide Clarke15 Elizabeth Clarke6 Marion Clarke5 Tarton Clarke8 William Clarke56 Harriet George23 Thomas George25 View
Original
Record


View original image

Children here are all those of Adelaide and William Clarke -- with Harriet as their oldest. Both Adelaide (my great grandmother) and her sister Adelaide are listed as born in New Zealand (Harriet in 1858 and Adelaide in 1866 -- both born in Christchurch, according to later census records).

Since Harriet's middle name was Rudd and 1841 / 1851 / 1861 census records show William living on the farm of Martha Rudd (I'm pretty sure that his mother was Elizabeth Rudd), I'm quite sure that William is her father -- and I would assume that he is the father of all other children too.

What perplexes me is that I can clearly see William in 1861 census records in Morville, Staffs-- which would have been 3 years after Harriet was born in NZ and 6 years before Adelaide was born in NZ).

Someone else on this forum was also kind enough to find a marriage record for a Clarke-Perry marriage in Birmingham are approx 1863 -- which also doesn't fit with Adelaide's 1866 birth in NZ.

Also of interest is the fact that Adelaide shows up living with her grandfather Thomas Harriman Perry's family in 1871 census record -- though William and Adelaide and the rest of their family are apparently still in NZ (or at least not easily findable in UK census records)

This might be too complicated and poorly described for anyone even to be interested or willing to help, but I figure it's worth a shot anyway. I would think that there probably weren't a lot of family's that migrated to NZ and back in the 1850s.

Another option here is that there was some kind of crime involved, but my grandmother said that Adelaide was a school teacher.

Another clue is that my grandmother said that the family arrived back from NZ when Harriet was 6 weeks old. I always thought that she meant to say Adelaide was 6 weeks old, but perhaps this is evidence of multiple trips?

I would have thought that a sea voyage from NZ to Birmingham would have taken several weeks or months at that time -- and likely quite an unpleasant ordeal for the most part -- which would have made it unlikely that the family would have made more than 1 trip out and 1 trip back

Anyway, thanks for reading and for any tips that you might care to share

The whole thing kind of reminds me of The Piano now that I think of it
 
Ian I live in Christchurch New Zealand right now.... I will go and view the Ships records in the Ch-Ch Museum for you and see what date your family arrived here and if they a recorded more than once.
Births are a lot harder to trace here unless you are related, but I will see what I can find out for you.
Although p;ease be patient as I work most days so it will have to be done at weekends.

Lots of families did return to the UK as life was very tough here for the first settlers and that's what your family would have been at that time. It was all open spaces and hills, everything had to be built from scratch and shipped in from the UK and other countries..

Also see the ref' to George George Prisoner on your 'Thomas George' Thread 1841

Pom
 
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What a wonderful offer, Pom! Thank you very much for helping like this
I've tried searching a few different ways to find passenger lists online, but not having any luck and it seems that NZ birth records aren't online yet. I've sent a note to the govt dept in charge of that enquiring after birth certificates though, so perhaps they will be able to find something.

UK census records clearly show Harriet and Adelaide as NZ British Subjects in every census where they appear, so I'm pretty confident that they actually were born over there -- just very strange anomalies with other records. It almost seems that the whole family travelled back and forth to NZ several times in a 10-year period, but that would be nearly impossible to believe.

I'm very much looking forward to hearing anything that you might be able to find out. This is easily the biggest hole in my family history right now and I greatly appreciate anything you might be able to find to help stop it up.

I also have a lonely 87 year old aunt in England who I'm sure would love to hear an interesting story about the grandmother she never really knew but who was always known to be from NZ.

All best wishes and warmest thanks

Ian

PS: Are you able to access ancestry.co.uk to see details from my family tree or would you like me to email / post any additional information to you?
 
This is your lucky day. I have loads of information but I will give you one piece for now in case you didn't get instant message:
Harriet Rudd Clarke was born 08 Aug 1862 in Christchurch, New Zealand. I have a photocopy of the record of her birth.

In 1881 she was only 18 so someone told lies to the census enumerator, no idea why but it serves to confuse her descendants!!
So no they did not travel back and forth to NZ. No idea what triggered their going.

How do I know this: Harriet is also my husband’s gggrandmother!

Husband – mother in law (still alive –George) - Thomas Albert (jack) – Harriet

I only came across you by a quirk of fate. A cousin (another George) had just sent me William Rudd C’s death certificate and I was cross-referencing something on the internet. By putting in total name for search I knew I would get the hit I wanted. To my surprise I got 2 hits and one was yours. I have never heard of this forum but then I am not a brummie ( and ma in law is still a little upset when Sutton Coldfield is said to be brummie!!)

I read some of your threads and realised you had some misinformation too. I tried to reply but one has to register and wait 2 days to be moderated otherwise 5th August would have been your lucky day.

Another George cousin researched in the 70’s, before computers and he went back to 1672! Unfortunately everything he has is on paper. It is his sister who is currently researching (more fun doing one’s own) and I think she has started from scratch but she still lives in the ancestral area. I sent her the forum link. I have the basic tree from the male cousin.

I can send you lots, including BMDs but not sure how one contacts outside this forum and I don’t want to be sending stuff through this.

Hope the weather has improved in Calgary. I was there for my nephew's wedding in the snows of April…
And yes it is Thomas from Fishers mill ( have a copy of the will for one who died 1858)

 
Hi lesley

If you click on Ians' name (On the left) a menu will open and one of the options will enable you to send an Instant Message (private) that will not be shown on the open forum


bren
 
It is so good when you read that people of the same family find each other through this forum. I wish you both well in your research, Lesley and Ian:)
 
This is really amazing, Lesley.

I read your message about having the same great grandparents as me and then got another email from someone saying that they have the same grandparents as me and sent them a long reply - thinking it was you. Turns out that there are 3 of us here and we all do indeed have the same great grandparents. The other member of our trinity would be "hetking" who is the grand daughter of Albert Thomas George and daughter of John Harriman George.

My email address is ian_george_ab@yahoo.ca (personal) or ian.george@bell.ca (work). You can find most of the family pictures that I have on Flickr.com if you search for Ernest Rudd George. I also have some copies there of my grandmother's hand-written family trees (including your mother Joan and father Geoff Clarke and yourself) -- though not yet in a very user-friendly form.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. Wonderful to meet you like this. Feels like I've just grown 2 more families here!

Huge thanks to the Forum for helping all 3 of us (Helen, Lesley, and myself) to connect like this too
 
Well , I must say this is one time I do not mind being made redundant LOL;) . I wish all thre of you well in your research, Helen, Lesley and Ian:)

Pom :angel:
 
I wonder if My Clarkes have anything to do with these Clarkes or if any one could help me please . My grandads 2 sisters Irene and Joice Clarke were both opera singers and they both emigrated to NZ pre 2nd world war . Thats all I know of them . My grandad their brother was named John William Clarke who was married to Rosannah Florence . I supect their mothe lived in Rupert Street and her name was Kathleen Clarke married to Albert Clarke .
It would be very interesting if any one could find out what happened to my great aunts because I am now a violin teacher and must have got my muisc from them .
Best wishes Jean .
 
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