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Changing your surname

A

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am searching family tree for a friend, I won't use real surnames for their privacy
Mr john *Jones* and his wife Sarah E M were married in Birmingham and had 2 children 1911 and 1912, who always said their father got into debt they moved north and changed all their names and later came back,before they came back they had 3 more children all born with mothers maiden name but new name *Smith*
When they came back all the christian names were the same but the father had become William.
All the children married with the name *Smith*
The mother died with her new surname but never found death for father with either of his names.
There was no chance that it was a new relationship with a Mr smith because the children remembered their father after they came back to Birmingham.
How easy was it to marry in the 1930/40s. when the 2 older children did, without proof of who you were.
I married in 1961 and had to show my birth certificate and when I later remarried , my birth certificate, my marriage certificate and divorce papers.
The 2 elder children would not have birth certificates with correct name.
Can anyone throw any light on what happened years ago about proving your identity.
Thanks, Alberta.
 
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i think this is one reason why searching our ancestry can be very challenging...there can sometimes be an element of doubt unless of course there are certificates to prove things...as alberta knows i have a bigamist in my family although this was in the 1870s but i also have both of his marriage certs to prove he left his wife and 2 young children in ladywood...moved to yorkshire and married again and had 3 more children...no check up in those days :rolleyes: it can also be difficult when a woman is buried under the surname of the man she lived with for years but never married him...its all fun and games but very frustrating at times
 
The thing that puzzles me Lyn is that all the family kept their christian names and he became William , not even his second christian name, he must have still been afraid of those he owed money to.
As for your bigamist he was really cheeky kept his same unusual name, but he was hundreds of miles away when he remarried so led us both a merry dance :)
 
In the early 1950s my father was teased by his work 'mates' that he was not properly married because the names on his birth certificate didn't match the one he used. He wrote to the legal advice column in the News of the World and got a letter which said that you could call yourself anything you like provided that you don't do this for the purposes of dishonesty. I remember that registrars ask if you are known by any other names when you marry or register the birth of children.

In Dad's case he and his four sisters were illegitimate. His birth certificate says eg Thomas Stokkie Smith Jones, his mother registered the birth using Stokkie as the name of the man she was living with (we assume the father) Smith was her birth name and she was still married to Jones. On census returns she gives Dad's name as Thomas Stokkie Smith and his sisters as Smith Jones - though when they lived with Dad's father they were known as Stokkie. They married as Stokkie.

Grandfather Stokkie had two families and Dad was horrified to discover his father had a wife and secret family consisting of about 7 mostly grown up. Dad's mother was married already and had a children with her husband. Discovery caused a massive rift. Dad was born in 1905. Grandfather Stokkie did eventually marry Dad's mother, but in 1916 after all the children of his second relationship were born. I have not seen my Aunt's birth certificates, but was told in the 1970s that 'they all bear different names'. So the paper trail was impossible before Ancestry.

Not a clear answer to your question, but I suspect you could go to a solicitor and swear an oath as to your identity if you needed to. You would need papers to get a National Insurance number not sure from 1911 or introduced with Labour government. Illegitimacy was commonplace as divorce for working people was impossible. Grandfather Stokkie was a businessman and apparently able to support two families. Dad kept no photographs of his parents.
 
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Alberta said:
The thing that puzzles me Lyn is that all the family kept their christian names and he became William , not even his second christian name, he must have still been afraid of those he owed money to.
As for your bigamist he was really cheeky kept his same unusual name, but he was hundreds of miles away when he remarried so led us both a merry dance :)
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oh yes my enos did lead us a merry dance alberta..even giving his dads name and occupation on both marr certs and his signature on both is identical but as you say both marriages miles apart so in those days no way of checking and i would like to think his poor first wife and children never saw him again as he died in yorkshire....luckily for them they were taken in by family instead of most likely ending up in the workhouse...she never re married

lyn
 
Stokkie said:
In the early 1950s my father was teased by his work 'mates' that he was not properly married because the names on his birth certificate didn't match the one he used. He wrote to the legal advice column in the News of the World and got a letter which said that you could call yourself anything you like provided that you don't do this for the purposes of dishonesty. I remember that registrars ask if you are known by any other names when you marry or register the birth of children.

In Dad's case he and his four sisters were illegitimate. His birth certificate says eg Thomas Stokkie Smith Jones, his mother registered the birth using Stokkie as the name of the man she was living with (we assume the father) Smith was her birth name and she was still married to Jones. On census returns she gives Dad's name as Thomas Stokkie Smith and his sisters as Smith Jones - though when they lived with Dad's father they were known as Stokkie. They married as Stokkie.

Grandfather Stokkie had two families and Dad was horrified to discover the Smith secret family consisting of about 7 mostly grown up. Discovery caused a massive rift. Dad was born in 1905. Grandfather Stokkie did eventually marry Dad's mother, but in 1916 after all the children of his second relationship were born. I have not seen my Aunt's birth certificates, but was told in the 1970s that 'they all bear different names'. So the paper trail was impossible before Ancestry.

Not a clear answer to your question, but I suspect you could go to a solicitor and swear an oath as to your identity if you needed to. You would need papers to get a National Insurance number not sure from 1911 or introduced with Labour government. Illegitimacy was commonplace as divorce for working people was impossible. Grandfather Stokkie was a businessman and apparently able to support two families. Dad kept no photographs of his parents.
Click to expand...
Dad thought his father was a bigamist. I think not, he was married twice but he did not marry the second Mrs Stokkie until his first wife died and the second wife's husband was dead too. Of course Grandfather Stokkie was a complex and secretive man, clearly a rogue and a chancer. He named two sons after himself twenty years apart but with different mothers.
 
My Dad was born in 1924 his mother died the same day, her husband was younger than her and had no interest in her baby, before she died she asked her brother and his wife to take care of Dad,
His birth father agreed to a private adoption, at that time no adoption until 1927.He stipulated that he must keep his Surname which he did but with his mothers maiden name and the surname of her brother as his second name.
He was known by the brothers surname all through school and when he started work in the pits.
I saw in records that the 1st banns of his marriage to mom had this name but then they were read a further 3 times with his birth name.
It is a small town and perhaps his birth father found out about the marriage.
 
Alberta. On the marriage certs for the "Smith" children does it say they were formerly known as "Jones"?
Only I have a friend whose birth father walked out when he was a baby. He grew up using his stepfather's surname although not adopted formally. His birth name had to be recorded on his marriage cert as "formerly known as...." even though he married using the other name.
 
I have found several ancestors in my family tree who were bigamist during the mid to late 1800's.

On their 2nd marriage (whilst 1st husband/1st wife was still living) their "condition" is described as "bachelor" or "spinster". Having checked their signature on the certificate for their 1st marriage and compared them, they are identical - as is occupation for the males.

William.
 
My Auntie Dolly married a man named Arthur. I was looking for their marriage and found that Arthur had previously been married although this had not been mentioned in the family. Dolly & Arthur were married in church in the early part of the 20thC so I was quite puzzled.

Arthur had a younger brother, Archie. When I looked at Dolly & Arthur's marriage certificate it was clear that his signature was wrong (I knew Arthur's handwriting). I then looked at the 1939 Eve of War census and discovered Archie living with Arthur's 'first wife'. I can only presume that Archie had used Arthur's birth certificate as proof of age as he was under-age on the marriage. Dolly always said that 'Your Arch was a bad lot!'
 
My ggrandfather was William Bryan and was married in 1901 to Mary. They moved from Leicester to Birmingham, where it just happened that my ggmother Mabel Folley, was boarding. According to the 1911 census, William and Mabel had 'married' in 1902. They also changed names frequently, the children at one point having her surname, then it completely changed to Hardy. However, whenever he was attending the marriage of his children from his first marriage, he signed as William Bryan! And I can find no trace of Mabel before the 1901 census.
 
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