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Chadwick William & Martha

claire-brum71

claire-brum71

master brummie
Hello everyone, been a while, i'd love some ideas please off people, still struggling with my Gt Grandparents, they married Dec 1899 in Birmingham, address at the time was given as Hingeston Street, Martha was born 1882 in Tewkesbury Gloucs (although she lied about her age on MC), and William 1879/1880/1881 in Birmingham (age varies on MC and Army Records) now after 1899 they disappear until 1920 when they turn up at 162 Brearley Street, on Williams Army Papers (recent brilliant find) he lists in 1914 on enlistment his address as 6 New Buildings, Legge Lane..... anyone have any idea where this was? and any ideas as to why i can't find them in 1901/1911 i'd be very greatful :)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

i dont know if you have this claire, but on the electoral rolls theres a william and martha chadwick at 162 brearley street in 1930 and 1935
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks Shera, i have that.. it's the time between 1899 and 1914 i am hoping to find, i know before 1930 she goes by Annie (Ann being her middle name) but i just can't find them in 1901 and 1911, by 1911 they had William Jr 1900, Elizabeth 1902, Rose 1903, Ann(Annie known as Nancy) all children born B'ham (backed up by Army Papers) they just seem to have dropped off the radar, Legge Lane it appears was in the Jewellery Quarter, so they are in Brum, just can't find where :(
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

I can't find any record of a "New Buildings " in Legge lane. However, in the 1920 electoral roll there is a "New buildings"(with 6 addresses), in Camden Drive which leads off Legge Lane. Individual properties in Camden drive do not seem to be listed in the directories (probably because they are all small rented houses not considered worth putting in) and it is therefore not possible to say where "New buildings" were exactly. . However the electoral roll does seem to indicate that they were at one end of the drive. At that time often minor roads were listed as a part of the road they led into, and thus New buildings, Camden Drive might be listed as New buildings, camden drive, Legge Lane, and the Camden drive bit was missed out in your reference. It is possible, but I have no evidence. you can see Legge lane &Camden drive on the map c 1917 below. For some reason there is an error, and Legge Lane is marked Legge St. Camden drive is marked in red
Mike

legge_lane_and_camden_drive_c_1917.JPG
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks for that Mike, that makes more sense to me, as i am sure i have come across the New Buildings address previously in his family history, but i don't think it was listed on Census back then as Legge Lane, i'll have to check back threw my paper work.
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi there
mike if you check out inglby street just down the rd from legge lane and camden st
which is just across the rd at the spring hill end and at the bottom of spring hill passage
there was a little corner shop and next to it was an double entry
and there was chadwick s they had only one son by the name of ronald whom went on to run his own bussiness in park rd hockley and bought little houses in barford rd and some other business
i was a friend of his until one day we had a massive fall out we have not spoken in forty years at least
best wishes astonion
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Hi Astonian, thanks for the input, he was probably a relative of mine, i wonder with your vast and awe inspiring knowledge, would you remember any restaurants/cafe's by the Aston Hippodrome i think it was, Martha ran it and my Nan Rose worked there, but noone can remember the name, she also had a big double fronted drapers and furniture shop around that area too, claire :)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi clare
as i remember the old shops there was a doubble fronted shop for a furtiture coming down towards the hippodrome
and it was either before or just after burlington hall as i recall it and yards past there was a cafe a little one always had steamed up windows
but when you came down to the aston hippodrome there was a big shop called the house of jack built they every think you could think of in it
it was a big long shop and just pastthere there was a cafe resturant with curtains on this was in the forties and very early fifties
later in years when it was time to remoderenise the area a little bit they knocked down that particular block and built a night club called the elbow room
and replaced the old shops where the house of jack used to stand with a moderen double fronted shop for furiture i think it was pooles furnishing who tok over and next to them they built a social services office or some think connect to them
as i said there was tow types of cafies but one was one of my grand fathers brothers cafe which years before your relatives had it is brother was the oldest george
and if i can remember correctly they never had a name to them it was just a cafe and resturant
my grand father and his family had all the cafes around aston and birmingham in those days i think way back from 1935 onwards they was around the corner from there as well in park lane and the aston cross they saturated the area of birmingham and all the brothers had a cafe about a mile apart from each other but sadly never hardley spoke to each other
but one thing they did do was to sell each other there shops before moving on to another
on the subject ofthechadwicks they was very strict with ronald and they kept a posh house we had to clean the house when we come home from scchool
and make up a fire for when they came home from work very spick and span
best wishes clare astonion
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks for that Astonian, it could well be that the furniture shop was hers, she was a woman of some means, having come from a very poor background, she really made something of herself and owned houses and everything in and around Hockley, aswell as various business's in the city..... i just wish i knew more exact details, and where they were for nearly 20 years when they appear to dissapear haha :)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi clare
sorry i could not be more precise on this but the two kinds of bussiness did exist but i could not say whether or not it was hers
if you are sure it was that kind of bussines she had the only alterni is to get one of our experts to do a run down on the listed owners of all thebussiness for that period
possible kellys directorys listing between park lane and phillps street which would have been on the high street aston going down towards the city centre and
the house that jack built is only other possibilitys i can think of to try and flush her out
i know the first cafe by burlinton hall had no name to it it was just the cfe but the second one i think it did have a name but for the love nor money what 6he name was i cannot think it could have been just dinning rooms as they was known in those days
do not give up eventualy ypou will succeed best wishes astonion
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Hi Claire

Something very strange going on here!!! I searched for William's army papers as you said they backed up the details you have for wife, children, address etc. I just put in Legge Lane and guess what came up? Listed as William Harvey Barnes born c1880, address given as 6 New Buildings, Legge Lane, Bham, enlisting 11th Sept 1915. So ok I thought perhaps your Chadwicks had moved in the year between his enlistment in 1914 and when William Barnes signs up. Then I checked the 1911 census for a William Barnes...................living at 6 in Yard, Camden Drive, Bham but actual census document says, 6 New Buildings, Legge Lane is:
William Barnes B1881 Bham - cabinet brass caster
Annie Barnes B1884 Tewkesbury, Gloucester - wife - married 11 years, 5 children born, 4 alive, 1 has died
William Barnes B1901 Bham - son
Elizabeth Barnes B1903 Bham - daughter
Rosey Barnes B1904 Bham - daughter
Annie Barnes B1905 Bham - daughter

Then even more confusing, this William Harvey Barnes' enlistment papers state his wife is Sarah Ann Ellis married at St. Paul's 26 Apr 1914. One child is listed as Martha Ann Harvey Barnes Born 2nd July 1915. The marriage for William Chadwick in 1899 Bham appears to be to a Martha Ann H Barnes?????

Confused? :)

Suzanne
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks Astonian, i tried a Kellys but couldn't find anything, but there must be something somewhere, all the ones old enough to remember are gone now, but i have one cousin i may be able to talk to who knew quite a lot of stuff, who may remember something that seems insignificant that could crack it, it's a shame she remarried, because on her death her new husband took the lot, got rid and left himself a very rich man for those times, her 12 children got nothing :(
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Smtr, OH MY DAYS! what a star you are! i can't believe that, no wonder i couldn't find any of them on 1911 census and i trawled that for months lol On enlistment in 1914 he does say he was previously in the forces, maybe he used her family name, does sound more upmarket then Chadwick.... to be honest, they were a colourful family, Marthas moms family all had criminal records, her dad was illegitamate, no wonder she lied about everything to her kids, took me years to find her really born in Tewkesbury not Barry, Wales, and she lied about her age on the marriage, i have the certificate for the 1899 Marriage, it is deffinately them.. now Martha does have a brother William Harvey-Barnes born 1880/81 so i wonder if that's his army papers? i will have to go see if i can find them and have a good look threw them, you've just made my xmas! thankyou :)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Claire

Fantastic! Glad to have helped:) If it is her brother's army records how strange that it led us to discover the Chadwick's were calling themselves Barnes. Thank goodness the brother gave the same address:)

Suzanne
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

I think it is her brother, place of birth listed as Gloucs, and him naming a child after his sister, makes sense, i'm going to go to the library as soon as i can and look up that marriage at St Pauls and get a copy of it, its amazing! how good was it he was living with them! i'm on a mission now hunting threw ancestry for more, will try the 1911 again now that i know her brother is in Birmingham, i should be able to find him too. I've had problems finding what became of all her siblings, but i'm getting there slowly, this brick wall now has a few missing thank you again :)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

I'm starting to wonder if her business's are in Barnes, because a check before showed nothing under Chadwick, i will have to get a new search done under Barnes i think.
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

That's a good idea Claire. Still can't find them in 1901 though:(
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

No me either, looked under Barnes and with her as Annie, they had William in late 1900, so he should be there i would have thought? I think i found her brother, no place of birth listed but a Patient in Birmingham, can't see on Ancestry what kind of place, looks like it could be a workhouse infirmary though as the first page lists nursing assistants.
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Claire
I saw that. It's listed as District Corporation of Birmingham Hospital, All Saints. Says he is a patient and Labourer, Brick. No place of birth listed. Under his name is an Arthur Barnes aged 9.
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi clare
i am very glad to see smtr is helping on this case and god willing you will be able to crack this case and now knowing that it could be barnes lady you arte looking for
i do not wish to say to much at the moment about this lady barnes but in all possible means there could be an opening for you
and as some think else as sprung to my mind from yester years of a mrs barnes whom bought a shop only a stones throw from where you said was a grocers shop
she had abit of an accent slightly different to the birminham accent and she hadno husband when she bought this little shop
but i will not say no more just yet i will be watching with baited breath and fingers crossed for you that some one as acheived your goal
i see mike is also watching out for you as he is on this thread at the same time as me so i will see what mike if any think as discovered for yoy mike is abriliant case finder and solver
take care and best wishes astonion
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Oohhh now that sounds interesting Astonian, could well be her, she was widowed in 1935 and didn't remarry until 1944 to a Mr Higgs, i'm sure she would have had a strong Gloucs accent still, even though living here, as her grandkids and children thought she was Welsh! haha

Smtr that has to be him, i found one of Marthas sisters family all moved up here as they left the canal work due to the trains taking over, and they were all brick makers/layers, so more convinced now it was him. I can't find anymore births though now for him and Sarah apart from Martha, but interestingly there is a in a court on Brearley Street in 1901 a Sarah Ann Ellis, i really have to get to the library, i'm itching to know more now lol
 
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Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Probably nothing, but there is a (Miss) Annie Barnes, laundry at 29 Headingly road in 1908 and in 1913 Mrs Annie Barnes has a laundry in Finch Rd (unnumbered , but between 102 and 114)
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi clare
she certainly did have a srong accent we all said to our selves where does her come from some people the mothers didnot like her
and she was a right so and so in manner certainly when it came to exchanginging the rationing coupons to get provisions from
clarelets wait and see how our experts and our friends come up with it
will speak about it on monday all being well alan
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks Astonian and Mike, i wonder if that is her? Mom said she had something to do with clothes, so it could well have been a laundry, she certainly had her fingers in a lot of pies, i know she ends up in 1950 in Sutton Street, her other properties being used by her grown children and families so she made a fair bit of money.

I'm just wondering who Arthur is now, there's one on the 1911 born 1891 Gloucestershire living Aston but i'm out of credits now, typical lol
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks Astonian and Mike, i wonder if that is her? Mom said she had something to do with clothes, so it could well have been a laundry, she certainly had her fingers in a lot of pies, i know she ends up in 1950 in Sutton Street, her other properties being used by her grown children and families so she made a fair bit of money.

I'm just wondering who Arthur is now, there's one on the 1911 born 1891 Gloucestershire living Aston but i'm out of credits now, typical lol
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Thanks Astonian and Mike, i wonder if that is her? Mom said she had something to do with clothes, so it could well have been a laundry, she certainly had her fingers in a lot of pies, i know she ends up in 1950 in Sutton Street, her other properties being used by her grown children and families so she made a fair bit of money.

I'm just wondering who Arthur is now, there's one on the 1911 born 1891 Gloucestershire living Aston but i'm out of credits now, typical lol
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Claire
Arthur Barnes B1891 Gloucester is living at 69 Ash Road Saltley. Parents Thomas & Polly Barnes born Gloucester. Siblings, Charles, Thomas, Florence and Kathrine all born Gloucester. Any link to your Barnes? If so I will post the rest.

Suzanne
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

hi clare
suttton street was only a stone throw from the shop in fact a block or two away from the excact shop she was running
unless i aqm wrong its looking good our clare
astonion alan
 
Re: William & Martha Chadwick

Claire

"i know she ends up in 1950 in Sutton Street"

Isn't Martha's last addresss in 1950 311 Aston Brook Street with her husband George R Higgs. Also a George F Chadwick?
 
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