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Brick Wall... help required

  • Thread starter Thread starter llamafarmer
  • Start date Start date
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llamafarmer

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Hi gang... ive now ben searching for over two years and have hit a major brick wall with my dad's side. I cant seem to find any mention of my great grandfather or great-grandmother's deaths, nor can i find any mention of my grandad's brother's brith, marriage or death. I know he exists because he is mentioned on my grandad's army service record. Would some kind soul mind giving me a hand... oh the other problem is the surname... SMITH!!!! Any takers? Info i have is as follows....

Grandfather... samuel arthur smith b 30.5.1907 in Aston m (Gladys Cooper) 27.11.1937 d 1979 (all confirmed)

Grandfathers brother... William?

Great grandfather... Ernest Smith b1881 m Leah Ashford 27.9.1903 d?

Great Grandmother... Leah Ashford b 1884 d? (my dad thinks she died in Northfield in the late 60's but this is unconfirmed)

If anyone is willing to help me before i tear my hair out (whats left of it) and needs anymore help please get in touch :cry:
 
Do you have any other info re William, was he younger or older than Samuel, did he have a middle name, every little helps


bren
 
This looks like the family in 1911, William not born yet ?


Name:Relationship to head:Marital Status:Years married:Sex:Age in 1911:Occupation:Where born:
SMITH, ERNEST HEAD MARRIED M 29 HAWKER WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
SMITH, LEAH WIFE MARRIED 8 YRS F 27 WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
SMITH, ALFRED SON SINGLE M 5 SCHOOL WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
SMITH, SAMUEL SON SINGLE M 3 WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
SMITH, ERNESTSON SINGLE M 1 WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
SMITH ERNEST
Address7 HO COURT 35 GREAT RUSSELL STREET BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
District Birmingham
SubdistrictSt George
Enumeration District20
ParishBirmingham


bren
 
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thats the problem, there is no mention or memory of any other children other than my grandad sam and his brother william... they may have all died in childhood but i cant confirm it... also there is no mention of the middle initial 'c' on leah's birth certificate, ive sent for the death certificate for most leah's who died in the 60's but theyre all married to the wrong chap... unless of course she remarried... but again theres no memory of this... the ashfords just fell into place the smiths on the other ahdn are a tough bunch to crack!!!!
 
there is no mention of a middle initial on leah's birth certificate which i have which checks out with mother and father. Ive sent away for most of the leah smith's death certificates in the 60's and theyve all come back with wrong husband names or wrong surname. She may well have remarried however there is no memory in the family of this. Ernests death was before 1937 as the marriage certificate for my grandad says that both fathers were deceased as time of wedding but again i cant find ernest's entry that checks out with the information that i have confirmed. As for the siblings of samuel arthur (my grandad) again there is no memory of them only william whom i think is younger. They may well have all died during childhood... this hobby at first enthralled me with its twists and turns, now i wish id never started because its asking more questions than answering! Im beginning to think my research info is wrong because it just doesn't tally. Im certain of samuel arthurs info (my grandad) and when i try to re-check my research it leads me in the same direction, i have three A4 notepads full of the entries ive checked in census and bmd's.... why oh why was i born a smith and not something less common???? :brokenheart:
 
The 1911 Census was taken on the 2nd of April, Samuel's age was given as 3yrs so that is correct, he would have been 4yrs in May.

Ernest and Leah are recorded as being married 8yrs, that would be 1903, age for Ernest 29yrs, his 30th probably after April. Leah 27yrs on Census so born 1884 etc etc

No doubt in my mind this is the correct family, when i get time i will look for the deaths, i haven't looked or mentioned those as yet but it would seem to me William was younger than Samuel and was not born at the time of the 1911 Census, anyone agree


bren

 
I think you hit the nail on the head, family history just raises more question than answers!
 
Disregard the others, got myself mixed up --

William Smith mmn Ashford 2nd qtr 1914 Birmingham 6d 525

Have you tried this one ?


bren
 
This could be another younger brother --

Albert Smith mmn Ashford 4th qtr 1918 Birmingham 6d 340


bren
 
Hi there,have had another quick scan through the 1960's deaths,Birmingham and found the following.
It seems quite likely because of the age (unless you've already sent for this one and know it's wrong!)

Leah Smith age 80
died 1st Q 1965 Birmingham
vol 9c page 320
There are a couple more,but the ages don't tie in with a birth year of 1884.
 
thanks gang...i will follow those up. Im feeling quite emotional actually... my brother and i are pretty much the last lines of the smiths... we've both had daughters... it would be amazing to find more smiths than i imagined existed, particularly poignant as my grandad never spoke about them, i wonder what happened :cry:
 
thanks lady linda... i sent away for almost all the death certificates and that one has the wrong spouse name on it...

want to hear a theory?

On my grandads army discharge record it said he was medically discharged on 21 April 1934 his next of kin is listed as his dad ernest and brother alfred. There is no mention of his mum or other siblings, the address is 9/357 New John Street West, Hockley.

Do you think Leah and Ernest split up and divorced some time in the 30's whilst samuel was away with the army? With Leah taking the other kids with her?

That would probably lead my grandad not to talk about his other brothers and my dad to be very vague about his grans whearabouts wouldn't it?

Any ideas where im going next with this one?
 
Here's another possible birth for you --

Florence Smith mmn Ashford 3rd qtr 1921 Birmingham 6d 681


Your theory sounds quite plausable, you may find more going through the Electoral Rolls at the library, once you have found them you can track them through the years. If they all disappear from one address then they probably moved house, if one person is missing it could mean they either died, married or just moved away from the family and it narrows down the years you need to look in the BMD


bren
 
Have just looked at the 1920 E-Roll and

Ernest & Leah Smith living 9, court 47, New John Street West


bren
 
bren how do you go about looking at the electoral rolls? do they have them for subsequent years? The people on the 1920 rolls you refer to are my great grandparents ernest and leah, my grandad joined the army in 1925 and was medically discharged in 1934 and his army record said he was going to live with his dad ernest and brother alfred at 9/357 New John Street West... this is the confusing part, on his marriage certificate in 1937 it said his dad had died but i can find no record of him as dying between 1935 and 1937, ive double and triple checked and the nearest one ive come up with has him dying in 1922 which i know is wrong :crying:
 
[SIZE=+1]Could this be him?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Deaths Jun 1935[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Surname First nameAge District.Vol Page[/SIZE]

Smith.....Ernest....54 Birmingham 6d596
 
The Electoral Roll for Brum are held at Central Library in what is now called Archives and Heritage Service , it used to be known as the Local Studies and History area, this is free.

Follow this link and have read to get a basic idea of E-Rolls

https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12911


There are some online at this site --

https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/index.html


Free to join and is Pay Per View, they have these years so far --

1912, 1918 (Absent voters), 1920,1925,1930,1935,1939 & 1945. These can all be searched by name, by address or both. You can even look for two people living at the same address - useful if you are researching a common surname.
pay-per-view unless you are viewing from a participating library

This death Pom has found looks like it could be correct according to your reckoning, let us know


bren
 
Just thought id keep you updated with how things are progressing...

Found william along with ernest, albert and florence (knew nothing about these people) still looking for alfred and possibly others.

Think ive found ernest seniors death in jun 1935 and am awaiting certificate

Things took a dramatic turn when i found that great grandad Ernest was a soldier in the first war... always thought he was too old but no he was a lance corporal in the royal worcs before transferring to the royal warwicks

Still cant find any mention of leahs death that ties in... the one that was most promising (6d p320) has the wrong spouses name, she may well have remarried but i cant prove or disprove this (any ideas?)

Now I have to trace the familes back in this direction to find family i know nothing about, need to find marriages and then births and eventually deaths....i would appreciate any tips and tricks you may have for this as ive only ever researched dead people!!!

Finally thanks to all that helped (you know who you are) ive got further in 2 weeks than i have in 2 years and its all thanks to you lovely people!
 
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