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Blue Plaque, What's That Secret Your Keepin'?

Pedrocut

Pedrocut

Master Barmmie
IMG_1773.JPG Baron Dickinson Webster (1818–1860),

In the thread "Beggars Bush" there is a mention of Penns Lane and Penns Mill. For me Penns Hall brings to mind Crossroads, and Benny going out for a spanner and coming back a year later. I knew very little about the history, and looking in Wikipedia [2] it shows that a blue plaque (thumbnail) honouring Baron Dickinson Webster (1818-1860) was sited at Penns Hall by the Sutton Coldfield Civic Society in 1998. It states Wire Manufacturer (First Atlantic Cable) lived here.

Now according to the Birmingham Civic Society each plaque recognizes an individual connected with Birmingham who has achieved greatness by, for example, making a significant contribution to their local community or excelling in their career.

We can see that Baron was a JP, a Freemason, and Warden of the town. But he was also Deputy Lieutenant of the County, and Chairman of the Aston Union from 1848 until his death in 1860, and in the Commission of Peace for the counties of Warks and Staffs.

However it is none of the above that Sutton Coldfield Civic Society chooses place on the blue plaque. So what did Baron ever do for Sutton as a wire manufacturer?

Wire manufacture had been taking place at Penns Mills for many years by his father Joseph Webster, and on return from Cambridge he became a partner. He was the second son, the first being Joseph Webster (1815-?) about 3 years older than Baron. Here Wikipedia becomes a bit muddled as the 1851 census actually shows Baron as head of family at Penns and employing 105 men and 43 boys. There is no mention of his brother, and his father Joseph must have been living somewhere else until his retirement from the firm Webster and Son in 1855. On his retirement the firm was carried on by Baron in co-partnership with James Horsfall of Bromsgrove Street and later Hay Mills Works in Birmingham as Webster and Horsfall.

In October 1859 Baron advertised a forthcoming sale of the whole of the well-known wire mills at Penns. One paper says "the skilful invention by Messrs Webster and Son of Penns Mill, founded around 1720 is about to be swept away, the situation and machinery being inadequate to present requirements." Both Wikipedia and William Dargue say "all operations were transferred to Hay Mills and Penns Mills closed causing serious consequences to local employment."

Baron Dickinson Webster died a year later in 1860, and at the time he and James Horsfall were near to completing a contract for a submarine telegraph cable from Marseilles to Algiers. When Baron Webster died in 1860, the business fell entirely into the hands of James Horsfall. [1]

So can Baron be credited as wire manufacturer of the first Atlantic cable? The first was laid in 1858 and failed, "BD Webster had considerably expanded wire sales and James Horsfall capitalised on this by winning the vital contract for the Atlantic telegraph cable laid in 1866." [1]

[1] A full history of Webster & Horsfall Ltd, The Iron Masters of Penns, 1971, has been written by the present chairman, Colonel JHC Horsfall.

https://coldwell.one-name.net/tng/getperson.php?personID=I2280&tree=Coldwell

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penns_Hall
 
The wonders of on line advertising. Following this activity on the Blue Plaques thread I have an advert on my screen this morning for a plastic blue plaque that you can personalise with your own details. Looks quite authentic.
 
I found your post very interesting Pedrocut. My family were connected with this company and worked the forge at Minworth. When the operations moved to Hay Mills they took a lot of their employees with them, building houses and even a church there, St Cyprian's.

I have a copy of The Iron Masters of Penns by John Horsfall. It's a really good book and I found the family tree fascinating. Baron Dickinson appears to have been named for his brother Baron who died as a baby and Dickinson for his uncle who died, aged 16 'at school'. I must go back to this book for a second reading.
 
Lady Penelope said:
I found your post very interesting Pedrocut. My family were connected with this company and worked the forge at Minworth. When the operations moved to Hay Mills they took a lot of their employees with them, building houses and even a church there, St Cyprian's.

I have a copy of The Iron Masters of Penns by John Horsfall. It's a really good book and I found the family tree fascinating. Baron Dickinson appears to have been named for his brother Baron who died as a baby and Dickinson for his uncle who died, aged 16 'at school'. I must go back to this book for a second reading.
Click to expand...

When Joseph Webster retired in 1855 and BD Webster went in partnership, James Horsfall was at Bromsgrove Street. Horsfall then moved to Hay Mills. The new location would be suited to the expansion ahead, but did BDW leave his workers behind....Or are Wikipedia and Bill Dargue overstating when saying.. "all operations were transferred to Hay Mills and Penns Mills closed causing serious consequences to local employment."

On the site for Blue Plaques in Sutton Coldfield it does acknowledge that the move to Hay Mills caused serious consequences to local employment. So why put the Plaque up, or why not mention his father Joseph Webster or even James Horsefield who would later live at Penns Hall and seems to have been more philanthropic.

Just found something that might shed further light on this story and will post later!
 
IMG_1776.jpg


August 1859....Messrs Webster and Horsfall's Gypsy Party at Sutton Park.

It appears from the account of the Party that Baron maybe DID take the workforce that wanted to go to Hay Mills. Moving with the new technology!

"....doing away with Penns and Plants Brook Mills, and have the operations carried to Hay Mill....it would be necessary to take many from the homes and associations of their whole lives, but on the other hand, they would find considerable compensation in the increased wages which the certainty and regularity of steam power would give them..."

A doff of the hat to Baron!
 
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The book highlighted above by Lady Penelope, “The Iron Masters of Penns,” written by John Horsfall 1971, answers some questions but raises others concerning Baron Dickinson Webster. I believe it shows that perhaps there are others more suited for the name on the plaque, and that Penns was not associated with the first transatlantic cable that failed, but with the more successful second.

The Webster family first came to Penns around 1748 and it was nearly 100 years later that Baron was made joint partner with his father in 1842 in the firm Webster and Son. His father moved to Breadsall Priory near Derby, but returned after the death of his wife in 1848. Baron’s elder brother had declined to take up the head of the firm. In 1855 his father retired from Webster and Son, and the firm was carried on by Baron in co-partnership with James Horsfall of Bromsgrove Street, and later Hay Mills Works in Birmingham, as Webster and Horsfall. But it appears that the architect of the partnership was Baron’s father.

In 1851 Baron had been overdrawn, in 1853 he was in trouble with creditors to the tune of £4,500 and the following year up to £7,700 with no reason to do with the business. A cheque for £800 had been drawn but had not been entered in the accounts.

Shortly after the partnership had been set up in 1855 the business was moved to Hay Mills. Baron died in 1860 in considerable debt, and the estate in considerable disarray. James Horsfall wrote off most of the debt, and the Webster involvement in the the business came to an end, even though the name Webster was retained up to the present. James Horsfall would later take up residence in Penns.

So Baron’s involvement in wire manufacture at Penns lasted from 1842 until the move to Hay Mills in 1856, a period of 14 years.

His father Joseph was Warden of Sutton Coldfield in 1809 and 1810, two years later Low Bailiff of Birmingham, in 1844 he was principal founder of Warmley Church.

“In the ample evidencewhich remains of Joseph’s Life and work, there is neither blot nor blemish, and his success in life is matched by an unsullied reputation. He was a very good man and endowed with every Christian value.”

“Baron could never have had time enough to. Give Joseph Webster and Son the unceasing daily attention which the business required, and before 1855 it is very doubtful if it ever fully captured his interest.”
 
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