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Biddle, Charlie Or Ernie

Sally Whytehead

Sally Whytehead

Birmingham Dulcimer Detective
Hi
I am doing research into players of the dulcimer in Birmingham. I have found references to Charles Biddle in newspaper records playing in and around Birmingham e.g. to wounded troops in 1917/18. I also have a photo of Ernie Biddle (see https://www.fred-woodley.org.uk/brum_people.html) at the Stratford mop c. 1914.

I would like to trace any living relatives of these two who are probably related to each other to see if they have any family stories or can tell me more about these characters and the history of dulcimer playing in their families.
 
Sally,

I took a quick glance at the five Charles BIDDLEs living in Birmingham in 1911, the nearest available census, and I think that we must assume that neither of these guys did it for a living, i.e. they all had day jobs. The most likely was a 61 year old house painter with a 31 year old son Charles (also a house painter), and a 21 year old son Ernest (an upholsterer), but nothing to suggest that any of them played the dulcimer.

I then decided to research the Ernest pictured on Fred Woolley's website. He's not a young man and the picture was taken in or before 1914. Look at his legs. The oldest Ernest BIDDLE living anywhere in Warwickshire in 1911 was a rural postman, Ernest Charles BIDDLE aged 34 born & living in Farm Street, Harbury, Leamington.

There are plenty of volunteers on this forum who just love researching this sort of stuff, but I think we need a bit more information about these players before we can reliably start gathering descendants. At the moment there is no guarantee that they actually lived in Birmingham or even Warwickshire, and the wider you stretch the location net, the more difficult it becomes. I've blown up the picture of Ernie a bit and perhaps a few other members could have a guess at his age.
Edit: Sorry, you got the same picture twice!
Maurice
 

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  • Ernier Biddle_2 c1914.jpg
    Ernier Biddle_2 c1914.jpg
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  • Ernier Biddle_2 c1914.jpg
    Ernier Biddle_2 c1914.jpg
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Hi, sorry Maurice
I should have provided all the information I know about him. I attach a table, mostly of newspaper references, but also part of an interview done as part of a thesis on dulcimer c. 1974 (now mostly online). This places Charlie Biddle as living in Small Heath, and also as playing in Stratford. The interview I believe was with a Mr Leslie Evans, a well known player who used to play the BBC and in the Birmingham area. So this gives us some clues about his age, his location and roughly when he died.
 

Attachments

PS you are right he probably did have another trade, it's likely he wouldn't have relied on this for a living. What I would like is to locate some likely living descendants who may remember him or have some stories about him.
 
Sally,

I've been doing a bit of digging in the British Library Newspapers Archive. No mention of Ernest BIDDLE, but 26 mentions of Charles BIDDLE and his dulcimer between 1915 and 1918, mostly playing to wounded troops and sometimes paired up with Mr W. PAYNE, a concertina player. In 1915 he was on the bill as a dulcimer soloist at the Aston Hippodrome. However, none of these mentions gave me any more information about Charles than we already know.

I've checked the Musical & Theatrical Deaths List, which are mostly based on information gleaned from The Stage, but there are no BIDDLEs listed.

Of more general interest I came across a Mr W. HAYWARD playing his dulcimer in Worcester on 4 February 1888.

If you require me to extract and forward images of the above newspaper entries, please let me have an email address via Instant Message - don't put it on the open forum - and allow a few days.

Maurice
 
I knew of an Ernie Biddle of Biddle and Webb, Auctioneers in Edgbaston, unfortunately he died a few years ago, he was probably in his 80's, could have been related ? Just a thought. Eric
 
Hi Maurice, did you see my post, with a bit more evidence from a thesis, placing. However I did not find all 26 of the references you found in the newspaper archive! I am accessing via find my past - would that be the same? I was mainly looking in Birmingham newspapers though. Many thanks for taking a look. I didn't know about the Musical & Theatrical Deaths List, that could be useful for other dulcimer research!
 
Sally,

Our postings crossed, but that would have saved me some time. The 1911 Census puts all the Charles BIDDLEs bar one in Winson Green, and the other as a lodger at 7-10 Sheep Street, which doesn't appear to exist any more.

I don't have a current subscription to Midlands Historical Data, so another member will need to check for BIDDLEs living in the Small Heath area at a later date on the Electoral Rolls. Only when you are certain you have the right Charles BIDDLE can we reliably start to look for descendants. At that point this thread will need to go out of the public domain as it will involve people who are still alive.

Maurice
 
Sally,

I took over responsibility for the Musical & Theatrical Deaths List some years ago and you can find it here:-

https://msheppard.com/tdeaths1.htm

I still have about 2000 deaths to add from back Year Books of The Stage, but they don't always list what the performer/manager/director/whatever actually did or played! It's also a very time consuming process.

Any missing newspaper mention won't tell you any more about him - they all say basically Charles Biddle (dulcimer) !

Maurice
 
Thank you so much for your advice and time Maurice. Would I be able to check out what info is on Midlands Historical Data without paying then pay to see individual records? Sounds like you think that's an avenue worth trying. I hadn't heard of it before.
 
Sally Whytehead said:
Thank you so much for your advice and time Maurice. Would I be able to check out what info is on Midlands Historical Data without paying then pay to see individual records? Sounds like you think that's an avenue worth trying. I hadn't heard of it before.
Click to expand...
I just did this, might try it out to do a bit of concentrated research!
 
If you have credits at https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/ , thenyou can search for names, or addresses without charges. Charge is only made if you wish to view the actual document. So you could check for Biddles and then , if required, view electoral roll. For 1920 there are 18 Charles Biddles (with or without assorted other christian names) listed.
 
Hi have reason to be.beleive these are the same Biddles that was great friends of Biddle
The money lenders of aston six ways aston i think it was Birchfield road end
They was connected to the show business and clubs
Along with victoria jelf nee hinton and perks
 
Hi Salywhytehead
I hope no/one will mined me reopening the thread in which sally made a request of her queeries
For the Biddles of Birmingham ,at this time i have a christian name for one of the Biddles
And its a lady,s Name ,and also i had previously left a comment about my rellie actually being friendswith the Biddles in Birmingham on my last signing saying they was friends and was involved with them
Socially through theatres and clubs and how they spent alot of time together at their house
,
Well the fact of the matter my mothers family was married into the Biddles as i have found out
and it was notjust the case of being just old friends after all.
They was related by marriage
Henry Jelf married Alice Biddle in Aston in Birmingham 1912
I have been given a reference number to this marriage ref, 1912 6d 626
His brother george jelf married LiLLy Alsopp , is it possible could some one progress on this for sally and me to get conformation for it to pursue further on the lifes of the Biddles
Thank you all again best wishes Alan,,,,,Astonian,,,,
 
Alan your Alice Biddle was born in 1893 in Nechells father James Joseph Biddle they lived in Cromwell Street in 1901 and Powell street in 1911.
I can see no link to a Charles or Ernest Biddle.
 
British Archive newspapers have got an offer on for for 1 month for a £1. The code you need is DEAL2. I put biddle Dulcimer and many came up, this is just one for October 1915 in Birmingham Maildulcimer.JPG
 
1911 census at 3 Kingston Place, St. Andrews road, Small Heath.
Charles Henry Biddle age 38 b Birmingham ,occupation Musician
Rose Elizabeth Biddle age 38 , wife, born West Bromwich
 
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