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Benbow family

J

JCLukin

proper brummie kid
Edited post from Hall Green Schools thread
Astoness said:
at the min i cant find a william henry benbow of school age living in birmingham in 1871...do we have his date of birth or parents names please..maybe john could view this post and give us some more info ..if we can find out williams address we could find out the nearest schools

lyn
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Hello Lyn,
You were asking for some more information on William Henry Benbow (date of birth, names of parents etc.). This is where my Great Grandfather's story gets a bit mysterious. My grandmother (Doris Elizabeth Lukin nee Benbow), daughter of WH Benbow, thought that her father was born in Birmingham on 20 October 1862 and I understand that she tried without success to get a birth certificate for him. WH Benbow's parents were said to be George Benbow and Sarah Jennings, daughter of Michael Jennings. However, family tradition has it that parents George and Sarah Benbow died in a typhoid epidemic within six months of each other while William was very young. His grandparents George Benbow and Mary Coles, then raised their orphaned grandson and later he was taken in by his aunt and uncle Charles William Benbow (b. 13 February 1842 at Bordesly, Warwickshire bp. 20 May 1842 Bordesly, Warwickshire) and Aunt Elizabeth Jennings (b. 2 Jan 1845). Uncle Charles Benbow and Aunt Elizabeth were said to be brother and sister respectively of young William Benbow's birth parents according to the family story passed down to me. Charles and Elizabeth were married on 11 August 1866 at Aston Juxta, Warwickshire. (See https://winsomegriffin.com/Benbow/ChasWBenbow.html) I'm sure places like Bordesly and Aston Juxta mean more to you than they do to me without local knowledge.

Given that my grandmother quite late in her life went to the trouble of trying to get a birth certificate for her father (WH Benbow), we think she might have doubted the story about her father being orphaned or the story of his parentage. We have also had difficulties trying to track down WH Benbow's parents George and Sarah. On the other hand, if William Henry Benbow was an orphan it might be the reason he went to the Hall Green Yardley Charity School - possibly with free tuition.

An inscription in another book given to my Great Grandfather WH Benbow states that it was given to him by his Sunday School teacher on the occasion of him leaving England in June 1875. I understand the family were Wesleyans, but I don't know where they lived or attended Sunday School.

William emigrated to Wellington, New Zealand with his Aunt and Uncle in 1875.

If you can solve the mystery of my Great Grandfather's birth and parentage you would have made a great breakthrough.
.
Thank you once again for your research. It is greatly appreciated.

John
 
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On the 1871 census with Charles and Elizabeth Benbow is a nephew William Jennings born abt 1862 - could this be the child known as william Benbow??

May be a red herring though.
 
It would not surprise me if the boy known as William Benbow had been born ( perhaps out of wedlock) to a relative in the Jennings family and raised by Charles and Elizabeth Benbow.
 
Hello again,
With some additional research, I think I need to correct the family story I was told about George Benbow and his wife Sarah Jennings being the parents of William Henry Benbow. With some assistance, I have found a Census record from 1861 which I think I have successfully attached to this message. It shows that Sarah Jennings was aged 7 in 1861 and could not be the mother of William Benbow born in 1862. This makes it possible that either of Sarah's older sisters Mary Ann aged 22 or Elizabeth aged 19 could have been William Benbow's mother. Elizabeth is the most likely given that she raised young William. I would love to take a look at the 1871 Census record you mentioned referring to Charles and Elizabeth Benbow with a nephew named William Jennings. More than ever, I think that William Jennings was probably the son of Elizabeth Jennings and when Elizabeth and Charles Benbow were married in 1866, Charles became young William's step father or foster father.

Is there any chance that you could send me a screen shot of the 1871 Census record you found as I have not had any success in finding it myself?

Kind regards,
John
 

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The entry for the Benbow family (mistranscribed as Benton on Ancestry) which contains William Jennings aged 9 is split over 2 pages
There are other younger children presumably from the marriage - but, hopefully, you will know.
 

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If Elizabeth was his Mother and she had him prior to marrying Charles Benbow then I suspect this might be the birth reg The date of reg would be 1 year out but that is not uncommon as exact dob were less important back then.
1735987811966.png
The dash indicates the Mother was unmarried. I assume you know you can by a digital image of the data for £3 from the GRO which might confirm if Elizabeth was the mother on this record.
 
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Thank you again Janice. Back in the 1960s when my sister was working in London, she was asked by my Grandmother to go into Somerset House and try to get a birth certificate for her father William Henry Benbow. Now I hope we have the reason why my sister could not get the birth certificate. I will certainly try to buy a digital image of the data for William Henry Jennings using the reference number you gave me.
Kind regards,
John
 
Hello Janice,

Here are the results of my first successful request for a GRO digital image of birth registration records! I've learned something new thanks to you.

1736067708728.png

As you can see, Elizabeth Jennings did not name William Henry's father for the birth registration. The day and month of birth is as we were told by my grandmother (20 October), but the registration year is 1861 rather than 1862. The place of birth (Birmingham) for the registration is also as we were told by my grandmother. Elizabeth Jennings married Charles Benbow about 5 years after the birth of William Henry and young William Jennings is described as a nephew (and not a visitor) of Charles Benbow in the 1871 Census. William was using the surname Benbow by the time he was a scholar at the Hall Green Yardley Charity School according to the inscription in his book prize dated December 1872. When he was about to marry in Wellington, NZ in 1890, William provided details to the Registrar stating that his father was George Benbow, Clerk and his mother was Elizabeth Benbow (maiden name Jennings). I am confident that the boy born William Henry Jennings is the same person known to the family as William Henry Benbow. It looks like he knew that Elizabeth was his birth mother and he grew up with her, however he may not have ever met his birth father if it was indeed George Benbow. I'm not even sure that a DNA test would solve the mystery of William's father, but it might be interesting.

Thanks again for your help.

Kind regards,
John
 
So pleased we have been able to help.
Those digital records are good (where they exist) - provide all the same info as a full cert at a quarter of the price. Plus you get it instantly.
Thanks for letting us know.
 
To add, in case you don't know, Elizabeth was at 8 Grosvenor Street on 1861 census with her parents.
That matches the address on the birth cert
 
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pjmburns said:
To add, in case you don't know, Elizabeth was at 8 Grosvenor Street on 1861 census with her parents.
That matches the address on the birth cert
Click to expand...

Hello again Janice,

With some help I have come up with a baptism record for William Henry Jennings on February 2, 1862 at St Thomas’ Church. The address of the parents is the same - Grosvenor Street - and on this record it names William and Elizabeth Jennings as parents. I have no idea who William Jennings might be.

I have tried to look up the address 8 Grosvenor Street, but there seems to be some debate on this Forum as to whether it should be Grosvenor Street West. Are you able to help me with that please? Should the address be 8 Grosvenor Street West?

Are there street plans or photos of houses in Grosvenor Street for this period?

Kind regards,
John
 
I've found a Google street view of 8 Grosvenor Street W which seems to be opposite the entrance to the Old Union Mill. The brickwork on the front of No. 8 is Flemish Bond, a pattern which was common on Georgian architecture and used here in Western Australia up to about 1900. However, the house does not look Georgian in proportions and the windows are nothing like those in the Mill across the road. Is it fair to assume the houses across the road from the Union Mill have been re-built post-WW2? I read that St Thomas' Church was bombed during WW2, so perhaps this area of housing a few blocks away suffered the same fate.
 
I think the problem is that Grosvenor Street and Grosvenor Street West seem to have become one street and it is possible numbering changed.
1855 directory has this entry
1736593288503.png

by 1868 the entry is
1736593448731.png
Later the numbering became, as we have it today, odds one side and evens the other.
 
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This might help as it shows the Grosvenor Arms although I would have expected it to be on a corner so I'm not sure.
mikejee

Post in thread 'Grosvenor Arms Grosvenor Street West'

The position of the Grosvenor Arms is shown in red on the c1889 map below. It was one of 19 pubs in the Ladywood area whose licensees were not renewed in 1913, due mainly to the "excessive number" of pubs in the area. The building referred toby MWS looks as if it is on a corner, and , if so, then cannot be the Grosvenor Arms. The photo also looks much later than 1913, so could not feature the pub as a pub
map c1889 showing Grosvenor Arms 44,46 Grosvenor st west.jpg
 
JCLukin said:
I've found a Google street view of 8 Grosvenor Street W which seems to be opposite the entrance to the Old Union Mill. The brickwork on the front of No. 8 is Flemish Bond, a pattern which was common on Georgian architecture and used here in Western Australia up to about 1900. However, the house does not look Georgian in proportions and the windows are nothing like those in the Mill across the road. Is it fair to assume the houses across the road from the Union Mill have been re-built post-WW2? I read that St Thomas' Church was bombed during WW2, so perhaps this area of housing a few blocks away suffered the same fate.
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absolutely john..the houses that are there now are all re build..for now ive found this map dated 1889 marking out no 38 for another member some time ago so assuming the numbering ran up in twos your no 8 would be about opposite the union mill..maybe a tad further up..also below is a link to a great map site..ive left it on the page for grosvenor st west ..all you need to do is move the blue dot and the map will fade out to show you todays view..hope this helps...lyn ps we need our map expert to make sure there was no renumbering so bear with us





mao_c_1889_showing_38_grosvenor.jpg
 
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Thank you again. I agree with you that it seems unlikely that No.1 Grosvenor Street West (address of the Grosvenor Arms) would be in the middle of the block and not at one end or the other of the street - especially given the format of the postal directory. Unfortunately the writing on the image of the map is very unclear, so it is hard to pick up much additional information.

Does the postal directory indicate the cross street where it commences this section of Grosvenor Street West?
 
Astoness said:
absolutely john..the houses that are there now are all re build..for now ive found this map dated 1889 marking out no 38 for another member some time ago so assuming the numbering ran up in twos your no 8 would be about opposite the union mill..maybe a tad further up..also below is a link to a great map site..ive left it on the page for grosvenor st west ..all you need to do is move the blue dot and the map will fade out to show you todays view..hope this helps...lyn ps we need our map expert to make sure there was no renumbering so bear with us





View attachment 197964
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I think numbering was consecutive in 1860s as shown by the directory entries post 95. Numbering later changed which seems to add to the confusion.
 
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I wonder if Michael Jennings had a shop front for his boot making at 8 Grosvenor Street West and by 1890 it was renumbered to 20 Grosvenor Street West with William Green as the boot maker? I think No.8 in the old street numbering and No.20 in the new numbering would be opposite the entrance to the Union Mill. I’ll see if I can work it out from the Scottish Map site.
 
I did wonder that. Maps don't show house numbers until the better scale maps of 1950s and by then those buildings had gone. Hence Lyn's use of a map where 38 had already been worked our.
 
In all directoies 1849 to Michael Jennings is listed as a shoemaker (a brushmaker in 1862) at 8 Grosvenor St West. In 1845 he is a shoemaker in Sherborne St, and in 1841 a shopkeeper in Tennant st. Michael has disappeared from directories by 1867. At this time numbering was consecutive (1,2,3,4...). Between the 1879 and 1880 directories, no 8 GSW became no 58 GSW. this would put house as he red one on this map c188

MAP C 1880S SHOWING 58 GROSVENOR ST WEST.jpg
 
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