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Archway Of Tears

M

mfree

proper brummie kid
Hi everyone,
I have just looked at the Birmingham England site (Brookfields and Winson Green) and was shocked to see the photo of the remains of the workhouse,Western road. I think something should be done to save this little bit of Brum's history. It's sad to see it like this after the memorial was put there to remember the unfortunate people who were within those walls. Does anyone know any more information on the subject?
 
This subject came up before but what under I don't know. I'll have a look through the old threads and if I come up with anything I will get back to you. Jean.
 
Hi all,

My father, James Littleford, was in Western Road Workhouse as a baby, around 1919/20? his mother and/or father were the inmates I guess. My father died in 2002 at 82. He was put into Shenley Fields Childrens home and stayed there until going to a working boys home at about 16. He also attended School for the deaf, in Edgbaston.

He never spoke about any of his experiences. I know he did have at least one brother, Arthur, and a sister Violet born 1913 as I have seen records from library archives. He never met or had contact with them and had no memory of them or father or mother.

I would really like to know if records of work house people/inmates are kept anywhere?

I would like to know the history of Littlefords, information about my dads dad, and his mom who's name was Sarah Littleford. He maiden name was Larney I think.

Any ideas? appreciated
 
It seems a pity to me that there is so much stigma against workhouses. The early ones were set up to provide shelter and an opportunity to work for people who found themselves in trouble, by no means always through their own fault. In those days the alternative was starvation, and the people who set these institutions up gave thousands a way back to a normal honourable working life. I believe they did a good job. Life was very, very hard in those days, and later Victorian times some people looked down on anyone who wasn't as lucky as they were.
I was born in the 1930s, and my parents and grandparents condemned anyone who had been in a workhouse, as if they had been in prison, illegitimate or smitten by any of the other taboos, such as skin colour or Jewish connections.
I am glad that I don't hear so much of this prejudice very much these days.
Peter
 
Hi Peterz,

Marriage -
Charles Thomas Littleford = Sarah Ellen Larney
registered in West Bromwich , sept quarter 1902. Ref : 6b-1285

The Littleford's Children's Births were registered in Kings Norton Reg District
Charles Edward b 1903
Rhoda Ellen b 1904 Twin
Violet Amelia b 1904 Twin
Beatrice b 1909
Arthur 1915
James 1919

in 1911
Sarah is listed as married and living with Children- Charles, Rhoda, Beatrice
at , 74 Rolfe St, Smethwick, Kings Norton, Worc's
( No sign of Hubby, working away or ill ? )

1920 Sarah is living at -2 back , 162 Ickneild St. Birmingham
at same add: William Arthur Edmunds.
Sarah Died a year later in 1921 age 38 years.
Possible she may be buried at either Key Hill Cemetery or Warstone lane Cemetery in Birmingham's Jewellery Quarter. ( see website )

The children-
Possible this is Marriage of Charles Edwards in 1927 to Emily I Parsons.
Twin -Violet Amelia Died the same year as she was born.
Twin- Rhoda Ellen ( Helen ) died in 1927 age 22
Found nothing for Beatrice ( could she have adopted the name Violet if that is a name your father recalled ? )
Have not done a search for Arthur .

It appears your family had a tough time and a lot of heartache.

Bo
 
Hi Peterz,

Your Father's older Brother,
Charles Edward Littleford and Emily I Parsons had a son-
Charles E Littleford born 1928 in Birmingham.

Bo
 
Peter Walker wrote;
I was born in the 1930s, and my parents and grandparents condemned anyone who had been in a workhouse,

how times change Peter. Those of us studying our family history, look on an ancestors time in the workhouse as a "badge of honour" we are proud to find someone who "did time" All very strange.
 
It isn't always a "badge of honour" just an unfortunate matter of fact.

My Great Grandmother and her siblings were in Uttoxter workhouse when they were small children. Their Mother died in 1848 and I cannot find out what happened to their father. I found them on the 1851 census in the workhouse and I feel that it would be wrong to condem children who would have all been between the ages of 11 and 3 at this time. They surely cannot be held responsible for the actions of their father/other relatives.

Also don't forget the poor often used the workhouse as an infirmary, my great grandmother gave birth to her first child in Birmingham Workhouse, having spet time in a workhouse as a child she would have known that she would have been cared for better there if she could not afford medical care.

Yes I imagine that there are people who went to the workhouse because of their own actions, there were a lot who this last resort was better than death.


Sue
 
sue..you are so right...we must not pre judge...

if anyone is looking for the 1881 census of inmates that were at the western road workhouse you can find it on birmingham workhouse.org...

astoness
 
Hi Bo,
This is a quick reply to say how incredibly grateful I am for your kindness in responding to my request for information re Littleford family. I will certainly be going to see my grandmothers grave, Sarah Larney. I had some idea that my dad was illegitimate. His name was James Edmund Littleford. I am not sure that he knew his father was Edmunds. I would like to know about Sarah and Mr Edmunds history now. He was my grand father, so I may have inherited traits from him as well as my dad and his mother.

Given their financial situation it is unlikely there will be a gravestone for Sarah.

Many thanks again for your kindness
 
Hello to all,
You will see from the previous post that Bo has given me considerable family information that I had been seeking for years - but clearly not in the right way.

I now want more information about my fathers mother, Sarah Larney and his father Arthur Edmunds. Time is always short so how do I go about it, what do I need to do, join, contact. Hopefully much of this can be done on-line??

What are the best websights to view? Is the 2001? Census online. I seem to be going in circles. I wish to make progress as quickly as possibly in case there are people still alive that I can actually speak with. I guess lots of people feel like this.

Any help/advise much appreciated.

Peter
 
if anyone is looking for the 1881 census of inmates that were at the western road workhouse you can find it on birmingham workhouse.org...

Have tried to get the site: www.birmingham workhouse.org wanted to see a list of workhouse inmates. Is there something wrong with the address?


 
Hi PeterZ,

Do you have have yout Father birth cert ?

Mothers often gave their illegitimate child a second or middle name that was connected to the father .

In 1920 Sarah is living with William Arthur Edmunds , rather than Arthur Edmund you mention in a previous post.

After Sarah's death in 1921 ,
William Arthur Edmunds married in 1923 to Harty Hake ( no not a joke ) They had 3 Daughters .

William Arthur Edmunds Died in 1935 age 46

On 1881 Census there is a William Arthur Edmunds living with his Parents Mary & Joseph Edmunds in Ash St ,Dudley.
Ref: Class-RG11, Piece-2872,Folio,33,Page-27

1891 with Parents at 25 Lime St, Smethwick
Ref: Class RG12, Piece- 2366, Folio-7, Page-7.

In 1901 he is lised as Arthur Edmunds still with Parents and siblings.
Add: 54 Pope St, Smethwick
Ref: Class-RG13 , Piece-2832, Folio-70, Page30

In 1918 to 1930 he is living at 2 back, 162 Inckneild St, B,ham.
His wife Harty also at the same address from time of Marriage.

Contact me if you want the names of the daughters .

Bo
 
Hi
After CHarles T Littleford died your grandmother Sarah Ellen Larney had a long term relationship with William Arthur Edmunds ( Edmonds )
On his service records in 1917 he has named Sarah as his next of kin and listed his children as -
Beatrice Littleford b 18-12-1909
Violet May Edmunds b 19-05-1913
Arthur Littleford b 18-08-1914 ( this was registered in 1915 )

Will Arthur Edmunds was 5ft 8" with 38" Chest. Suffered Bronchitis
was discharged in 1917. Occ: Labourer.

Your Fathers birth is registered in 1919 Dec Q. B,ham: Ref 6d-381
Mother M.N is Mistranscribed as Leaney rather than Larney.

With reference to my last line in message 8 ,I can assure you this was made before I found out the name of his second wife who I found today.
After your Grandfather died in 1935 , Harty married Donald Marcus Alexander Harper.

You will have a number of relatives from these unions .
Still searching :)

Bo
 
Bo, This is really helpful information. It would have been wonderful to have been able to say to my father that he was in a workhouse not because his mother did not want him but because she unwell/died when he was only 2 years old.

I guess my bloodline would really be Edmunds/Larney.

I am still mulling over the information, thanks again.
 
I was born at Dudley Road Hospital ( now City Hospital) and lived with my grandparents in their shop almost opposite the Western Road entrance in Crabtree Road. My grandfather Leon Crutchley is remembered on Ted Rudges site. I remember as a child seeing the Archway on a daily basis and I think it's so sad that only a small part of it remains. My grandfathers sister was born in the workhouse, both my paternal grandparents died there and my paternal great grandfather was treated there after the first world war so I have many connections with City Hospital. Having moved away from the area as an adult, I have now come full circle and work at City Hospital as a manager. I worry what will happen to the limited remains once the new hospital is built and can only imagine that the City site will be sold for development....
 
Minsky,
I think you are right about our failure to understand the importance, painful or not, of the past - our past histories. We might even learn from it.

Perhaps managers like you and people like Carl Chinn might be able to influence our politicians to do as we, the people, wish them to do. To look back remember and look forward - I feel we do need tangible symbols of our histories to remind us. Not everyone will read books. The workhouses offered harsh surroundings but did give shelter and perhaps the greatest driver, hope.
 
peterz said:
Minsky,
I think you are right about our failure to understand the importance, painful or not, of the past - our past histories. We might even learn from it.

Perhaps managers like you and people like Carl Chinn might be able to influence our politicians to do as we, the people, wish them to do. To look back remember and look forward - I feel we do need tangible symbols of our histories to remind us. Not everyone will read books. The workhouses offered harsh surroundings but did give shelter and perhaps the greatest driver, hope.
Click to expand...
Very wise words Peter I hope someone listens to the people. These 'monuments' are important cymbals of our past and should be saved.
 
Hello Bo and Wendy and anyone else that is reading,

My subscription to Genes Reunited (Gold) has run out and I am wondering if there is a better option available that gives more access and informaton. Genes Reunited is now offering a Platinum version which is supposed to give a little more information! but it is also double the subscription price (£64).

Could anyone suggest sites that they feel would be worth looking at please.

Many thanks

Peter
 
Hi
I seen on here somewhere about the book Archway of Tears by David Conroy. I contacted my library to see if they had it. They did have a copy in Central Library, but i was told i could go and look at it but could not take it away. So after searching i managed to buy a copy. I am about a 1/3 the way through and it seems a very good book. It is the first novel by David Conroy and is based on real life events from his mothers life. Through her rash behaviour it finally leads her through the Archway Of Tears, ( the title given locally to the entrance of the Birmingham Workhouse in Western Road. I look forward to finishing this book.

Stars
 
I have just ordered a copy I love reading books about Birmingham.

If I hadn't read The Gangs Of Birmingham I would never have known my great grandfather was club secretary at West Bromwich Albion in their inception.
 
As the author, I am very pleased to see the interest in my book. The research took me to some very interesting and unusual places in Birmingham.
The book is still in print, and is available from Brewin Books of Studley. They can be contacted on 01527 854228, or admin@brewinbooks.com.
If anyone is interested in any of the factual places in the book, I will be happy to share any of the information that I obtained with them.
 
Hello Dconroy and welcome to the forum. I have just sent for the book from Amazon.
 
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