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Anyone with Irish relatives who fought for Britain in WW1 ?

J

jb007uk

proper brummie kid
Hi,

My Father who was born in Dublin, has 2 uncles who fought and died for Britain in WW1 along with over 500.000 other Irishmen.

Why would Irishmen fight for Britain in 1914 whilst being occupied by Forces of the Crown - a subject that has always interested me !!!

Anyway, my Father has 2 uncles - who were Brothers - one being only 18 & the other one apparently 21 years old. They left Dublin for the war never to return and I have always wondered - why would 2 young men, in effect fight for as well as against a foreign country, surely it was only because of the abstract proverty that affected Dublin/Ireland at the time ?

I welcome any educated replies along with anyone on here who has any such contradictions regarding the Irish and the British. Just to give you another example you will see that my great grand father played footaball for England, however either his Father or Grandfather was Irish ! I have a number of others - however I do not have all day.

Rgds - JB
 
Happy New Year jb007uk

Have you searched www.cwgc.org site for your relatives who were casualties in WW1? If they were killed their names will be recorded here. It is a marvellous site.

I have no Irish relatives but have certainly heard of "the fighting Irish" and particularly their background in WW1 when so many signed up for service. The figures vary, 350,000 and 50,000 who were already serving when the First World War broke out, to higher figures depending where your source is from regarding this. There are books and websites about
the participation of the Irish in WW1 and why they were willing to sign up and be a part of this dreadful War.
In some ways these resources prove somewhat inconclusive though. There may have been many personal reasons but the state of the Irish economy at that time gave Irishmen an opportunity to be a soldier. Here is one: www.waterfordcountymuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/31;jsessionid=DE87EBCE46BEE410E8A9901179974993
Please tell us more about your Irish Great Grandfather who played football for England. His name and years playing.


jb007uk...We, on this long lived forum, are well known for giving more than a few "educated" replies in all manner of subjects some of which take more than all day to research.
 
My (Irish) Great Uncle died in WW1 (1894-1917).
Found his details on the cwgc website recentley (had conflicting surname for him).
Have wondered why he did fight for us...
 
jb007uk said:
Hi,

Why would Irishmen fight for Britain in 1914 whilst being occupied by Forces of the Crown - a subject that has always interested me !!!

Anyway, my Father has 2 uncles - who were Brothers - one being only 18 & the other one apparently 21 years old. They left Dublin for the war never to return and I have always wondered - why would 2 young men, in effect fight for as well as against a foreign country, surely it was only because of the abstract proverty that affected Dublin/Ireland at the time ?

Rgds - JB
Click to expand...

Quite simply because very few'southern Irish' saw Britain as an occupying power in 1914. Britain appeared to be on a road of timely concessions to Irish national feeling - the Liberal Government was dependent on the votes of 80+ Home Rulers (elected by Catholic voters in Ireland and inaccurately called the Irish Nationalist Party) after the 1910 elections and brought forward a Home Rule Bill in 1912. This Bill faced opposition from Ulster Unionists and the British Tories who saw it as the start of the break up of the British Empire. When war was declared Home Rule was postponed for the duration but would become law at the end of it so the Irish were fighting for Britiain, for a Home Rule settlement post-war and for 'poor little Belgium' a country they could empathise with.

The republican movement which wished to kick the Brits out of Ireland saw the war as their opportunity. They launched the abortive Easter Rising in 1916 after a comedy of planning errors. As the surrendered rebels were marched through the streets to Kilmainham they were booed and insulted by the citizens of Dublin, many of whom had sons/husbands on the Western Front etc. Then the British Government allowed c80 death sentences to be passed on the rebels by military tribunal and 15 were carried out, including the wounded Connolly tied to a chair. This totally changed Irish opinion as shown in by-elections from m1917 onwards. The rebels were now martyrs to Irish freedom. The political beneficiaries were a little known nationalist party founded earlier in the century - Sein Fein ('Ourselves Alone') who swept the Home Rulers aside in the 1918 general election and set up their own Parliament in Dublin. The British resisted leading to the War of Independence which neither side could win - 1922 Treaty, partition and the rest is History as they say.
 
Irish fighting for Britain Great War

Incidentally my Royal Warwickshire Regiment deaths database has 386 men born in Ireland.
 
My exhusbands grandfather was born in Clonmel,Tipperary
He enlisted in the British Army(the Royal Irish regiment) in Clonmel in 1880 age 17.
He fought in the 1882 Egypt compaign and in 1891 was with his family at Colchester barracks.
I don't think that for many young men it was a case of 'fighting for the British' so much has having a job which put food in the mouths of their children and as it has been stated previously many Irish didn't have any problem with the British rule.
He was a British army pensioner until his death in Belfast just before the outbreak of WW11.
My exs father George, was called up late in the war he was in his late 30s and went to Germany .I don't know if he could have refused on the grounds he was Irish.
He was murdered in 1945 after the war ended by a group of prisoners released from a concentration camp.
They were in no frame of mind to allow British soldiers to stop them looting German houses.
 
My grandfather Thomas Hogan served in the British army from age 14 to 56 when he died.From the Royal Flying Corps to the Royal Warwickshires he chose to serve this country along with his brothers they lost their lives during WW1.He was made sergeant at 20 and later in his life trained the younger soldiers.In 1939 the year of his death he was made armoury sergeant and was arrested and held in Steelhouse lane police station .When I asked my mother why would they do this to someone who had served this country all his adult life she said the only explanation was his name HOGAN.Mary
 
Just to reinforce what has been said in reply already - my Great Grandfather, born in Donegal, enlisted with Donegal Artillery in 1896, aged 18. He served in South Africa and India and, when my grandmother was born, was stationed at Portsmouth Barracks. After quitting the army in 1911 he moved to Chesterfield, joined the Sherwood Forresters when WWI broke out and then, sadly, was killed at Ypres. I puzzled at first as to why he would be in the British Army but then came to the conclusion that he found a career which gave him an exit from poverty and a chance to make something of himself.

I never met him but never forget what he and many many more did so that I may now have the life that I enjoy, especially at this time of year.

WEAR YOUR POPPY WITH PRIDE
 
My husbands step dad Gabriell Farrell from Longford fought and was in the Conaught Rangers. He was disowned by his family for doing so. He also joined before the legal age lying his way in as did many others. Jean.
 
There is a magazine on sale regarding the programme last night and costs just over £4.00. Going to buy a copy in the morning. Jean.
 
As Ireland was part of Great Britain in 1914 with the problems of landowners, English and Irish clearing the crofters off their land along with the similar problem in Scotland. The question should be why wouldn't they! But as hinted at by others there was so much poverty because of the above it gave them the opportunity to get themselves fed and send something home for their families.
The real question should be regarding the number of Irishmen who fought in World War Two, I have heard many stories of men walking 20 miles and more to cross the border and sign up in the British services and we should all be glad they did, even though they were not obliged to fight they did so to help free the WORLD of tyranny as did Americans and other nationalities before they were dragged into the conflict.

So to all the Irish, and Irish descent, who did fight for freedom and many of their families who now live on this side of the Irish Sea, thank-you.:)

Bill.
 
If the first world war had been a little later it is unlikely that your grandfather and others would have supported England. 1916 was a defining year in Ireland.

My Irish mother joined the RAF in WW2 but she never forgot the 1916 troubles and the behaviour of the English in Ireland.
 
My grandfather N.R.Nuzum enrolled south irish horse during ww1 but was dismissed for being underage. But re-enlisted in the Norfolk regt whilst still being underage (15-16). He was from Dublin.
 
To add to the original question asked, the greatest Unionist of the time came from Dublin, in Edward Carson. Ireland was the only place in the British Isles where conscription never took place, because the stream of volunteers just kept coming.
 
That's not entirely true.

The Military Service Act 1916, which introduced conscription to the rest of Britain, was not applied to Ireland because of political sensitivity. Voluntary recruitment in Ireland dried up pretty much as it did everywhere else, to the extent that many Irish units had to be disbanded in 1917 and 1918 because of dwindling manpower.
 
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