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349 Bradford Street, Deritend

L

LSt1603

knowlegable brummie
Hiya, another mapping request from me, promise it's the last one...!

Can anyone find 349 Bradford Street for me? My 2nd great grandfather Frank Carroll lived here in 1903 but it looks like the street ends at no. 345, a.k.a the Drovers Arms. On older maps not from the '50s there's buildings in the yard behind the pub, so it could be there?

–L
 

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May I ask what makes you think he lived at 349?
In directories as well as the map the street seems to end at 346 as you said.
 
I am somewhat mystified. As Janice says, ther eis no evidence on the census or directories for numbers other than 346/345 . Maps for 1880s, 1901 and 1913 all show the Drovers as the last building. the 1880s map shows entry to the yard as being to the right of the pub, whereas later maps show entry to it from round the corner in Smithfield St. The front and side of the Drovers is shown below in photos I took around 1970

30A.Back of Drovers Arms.jpg31. The Drovers Arms, Bradford StB.jpg
 
pjmburns said:
May I ask what makes you think he lived at 349?
In directories as well as the map the street seems to end at 346 as you said.
Click to expand...
Hi Janice,

Sorry, should have said.
His first-born sadly did not survive infancy and this is listed as his address on the death certificate.
 

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Thanks for that. Well it is clearly 349 so it is a mystery.
Neither Mike not I can find any reference to numbers beyond the Drovers Arms.
Do you know if it was the same address on his birth certificate?
 
Just a bit of a guess. The only Frank Carroll (presumably the father referred to) in the 1901 census is in New John St . and here he is referred to as a "porter bottler", Could he have been employed at the Drovers and then living in, and .for some reason his accommodation be referred to as 349? Glass beveller may have been his original profession, and would sound better than cellarman. In the same way "resting" actors today working in a pub would put their profession as actor

ScreenHunter 6953.jpg
 
On his marriage cert in Aug 1903 Frank is described as a "bottler" and living at 11 ct 10 house Tower Street. In Jan 1905 at the baptism of Albert he is a "mineral water bottler" and living at 45 witton Street. In 1907 at the baptism of Frank he is again a "porter" and they live at 249 Gt Lister Street.
So they certainly moved around.
 
mikejee said:
Just a bit of a guess. The only Frank Carroll (presumably the father referred to) in the 1901 census is in New John St . and here he is referred to as a "porter bottler", Could he have been employed at the Drovers and then living in, and .for some reason his accommodation be referred to as 349? Glass beveller may have been his original profession, and would sound better than cellarman. In the same way "resting" actors today working in a pub would put their profession as actor

View attachment 184452
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Mike and Janice.

Mike, he was a glass blower originally straight out of elementary school and then became a beveller, porter/mineral water bottler, and then gas engineer for the city council at the 1911 census, where he's living with his aunt-in-law next door to the Unicorn Inn at 47 Digbeth.

It's definitely possible he was working at the Drovers but then again there were so many brewers and bottlers firms in Birmingham, and he doesn't necessarily have to have been working at the pub to have lived in the yard behind it... Also this is the only record where his occupation is something other than a bottler from this period, but I think we should take his word for it that he was in the glass business.

Janice, I'll have to see the birth certificate to double check the address and occupation.

–L
 
On 1911 rates books 329 is listed as "house and offices". Trying to find it earlier but haven't found it so far.
 
In 1910 Kellys 328 - 329 is listed as Richard Hetherington, lard pan manufacturer
1908 not listed
1903-1905 Kellys 328-329 William Henry Dunkley motor car builder
1900 not listed
 
mikejee said:
In 1910 Kellys 328 - 329 is listed as Richard Hetherington, lard pan manufacturer
1908 not listed
1903-1905 Kellys 328-329 William Henry Dunkley motor car builder
1900 not listed
Click to expand...
Having a look at newspapers, it looks like Dunkley's, who made motorised prams, were based at Jamaica Row with their works at the corner of Bradford Street and Mill Lane throughout 1900 to 1907.

Is it possible they were living above the works at no. 329?
 
Unfortunately the rate books are not online for 1903 - they jump from 1901 to 1906 but are always descrbed as a house and office.

On 1901 census 329 and 330 are recorded as empty - ie no one living there so perhaps just business premises.
1695039324267.png
 
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It is listed as a "house and offices" on the rate books but I can't find census evidence for anyone actually living there. This seems to be the case with a number of Bradford Street premises.
 
LSt1603 said:
Maybe I will have to get the birth certificate after all to *triple* check!
Click to expand...

It's much cheaper and faster to order these now for BMDs up to 1922. For £2.50 the GRO immediately gives you an online image.

We might be back to square one (sorry!) with 349 Bradford Street, but both the birth and death registries were written by the same registrant, Charles Preston, on 22/12/1903.

https___www.gro.gov.uk_gro_content_certificates_ov_00000074831040051674_2711034_5QFE28CMKFT73DU.jpg
 
It is likely these addresses matched as the birth and death were registered on the same day.
If the father, Frank, was grieving he may not have noticed if the number was right.
 
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