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In 1880 Mrs Sarah Withers was a shopkeeper at 4 Charlotte Street, St Paul's Square. Any images of shopkeepers in St Paul's from about that time would be most welcome. Cheers

Just to clarify the term 'some tipsters' above. Are these the bookies taking bets, or the horses in the race? Sorry my racing education is severely limited ... Cheers

Brilliant

Just to clarify. Is the image painted by sir Robert Sale, of Mr and Mrs Vallant? If so where did you spot it and may i download it? Cheers

Sounds plausible, rather like the idea of Gleaner as a winner. Took a squizz at the image via Christie' s site, and why not? Yes, I see the book on Google books. Wonderful. Great find Pedrocut. Most grateful.

Sure, why not? Maybe. Is Bott a Brummie? Not that that is essential.

Have discovered these candidates at the website of Invaluable.com: Cornelis Jan Bolt; Johann Friedrich Bolt, copper plate engraver; Niels Peter Bolt; Ronald William Bolt. There is also listed there Frederick Morgan, ROI (British, 1847-1927) "Gleaners". So not much clearer as yet.

But wait ... there's more: BOLT. In his Will Edwin had listed this one The Gleaners, by Bolt. ‘Bolt’ as a painter, is not found in any on-line reference that I can find. The only painting titled ‘The Gleaners’ found on-line is by Jean-Francoise Millet, 1857. Is there a Birmingham painter named...

Ok everybody, glad to find this thread, great discussions, love it. Now, in this Covid 19 period how to locate Mr Edward Weston Withers 1763-1819, Edgbaston. His son Edwin is the only reference to him as 'artist' in 1830. So far no joy in finding any reference to him apart from that. You...

Brilliant, glad to discover this thread. William Such is in Edwin Withers 1888 Will, but merely as a name. Where will I find more of him, please?

Great news, been looking for this guy, thought he may have been SOUCH. Such is in Edwin Withers 1888 Will.

Hi guys, Last year I was searching for Withers in Cheapside. Somebody posted an image of, I think, Cheapside to Deritend (perhaps with a tram, but I'm not now certain). In that photo was a two story building wit a clear sign on the top wall saying "Withers Tobacconist" with an arrow pointing...

Hi Pedrocut Please could you elaborate a little on this 1829 mention - it could be the only other reference to him in existence! Cheers

I suspect the 1843 Tobacconists in 93 Smallbrook were Edwin and perhaps his nephew Samuel. Edwin had no brother in his life, but his uncle's surviving son could have been the one, especially as the nephew Samuel inherited the family tailoring business at 93 Smallbrook. The 1843 reference to...

Brilliant work, greatly appreciated. Will go over it tomorrow. I did see one reference that he sold tea as well as tobacco from Cheapside. Will check in morning.

Thanks for this map Pedrocut. I have a photo of Granville House taken by the Handsworth Historical Society, in Park Ave. Now a mental health clinic, I believe. With grateful thanks

Am most grateful to you both Mikejee and Pedrocut, for your extensive and detailed researches. Re Edwin's father: "Edward Weston Withers, artist and gentleman" Would you mind supplying the reference for your 1829 snippet, please? He died in 1819 intestate but his wife, Elizabeth Dean, claimed...

Thanks Pedrocut, not sure myself what sort of landowner he was except that he had worked hard all his life, made shrewd business investments and became a typical wealthy Birmingham Victorian gentleman. In fact in his Will he described himself as "Esq" rather than 'Gentleman'. He may deserve his...

Thanks Mikejee; very helpful and much clearer. As far as I can make out Edwin was reluctant to advertise even in the Trade Directories. He is there but not much.

Very grateful Astoness. When looking through Trade Directories I couldn't find any reference to the business, so this is most helpful.