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Hybrid & electric cars

when diesel and petrol cars are no longer for sale and hybrid's are not made any longer its not much use trying to tow a cattle trailor or large caravan with a ev is it? so the car makers will have to start thinking about producing much bigger electric suv's not just small shopping trolley cars
 
I run a 2014 Renault Zoe, had it two years now and its battery capacity is only about one percent down on new, I charge it at home now on 7Kw but for the first year I charged it at Tesco on 22 Kw, an awful lot of negativity from the naysayers about EVs but I doubt many who change from ICEs will change back.
 
mw0njm. said:
when diesel and petrol cars are no longer for sale and hybrid's are not made any longer its not much use trying to tow a cattle trailor or large caravan with a ev is it? so the car makers will have to start thinking about producing much bigger electric suv's not just small shopping trolley cars
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I think many car makers will be building hydrogen cars/trucks which appears many rail systems are going. If it is electricity we need to understand where it’s all going to come from, right now almost 70% comes from oil and gas!
Ford and others are building 450 hp ev trucks, nothing energy efficient there!
 
mw0njm. said:
slow slow quick quick slow



DC quick charging is very useful if you need to drive more than the vehicle’s single-charge range in a single day, or you just simply forgot to charge up last night and are hovering below the 30% range. DC quick chargers can dump upwards of 130 kms of range into the bat in 30 minutes. However, the batteries pay a price for this convenience.
Battery performance and durability can deteriorate if the DC charger is used constantly.
Use of DC charging should be minimized in order to help prolong battery life. The life expectancy of most EV batteries is about 70-80 percent of capacity after 10 years of normal use. It is theorized that frequent use of fast charging - more than once or twice per day - will cost you about 1 percent of capacity per year. Which basically means very frequent users of fast chargers can expect performance on the lower end of the normal range.
Level 2 AC charging is recommended to keep the battery in optimal condition.
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Based up what is seen here, 10 years is beyond the best battery life expectancy. 6 to 8 are considered very good. Rapid charges are useful but not the recommended of preferred approach.
 
ok folks it has been decided to re open this thread...could members please keep the thread on topic

thanks....the team
 
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Without wanting to start an argument on such a good natured forum, I think it’s going to be a very long time indeed before ICE production is ceased entirely, if ever. For some, electric vehicles are entirely practical and affordable, but for many the opposite is true. There are also significant downsides inherent in EVs that fly in the face of their “Green” credentials which are often wilfully ignored by their proponents. It should be noted that new ICE are being developed right now (Renault/Geely for instance will make 5 million petrol/diesel/hybrid engines per year) and some car manufacturers like BMW have publicly stated they have no date set to end their production. Wisely, I believe, they’re keeping their powder dry.
 
Godber said:
Without wanting to start an argument on such a good natured forum, I think it’s going to be a very long time indeed before ICE production is ceased entirely, if ever. For some, electric vehicles are entirely practical and affordable, but for many the opposite is true. There are also significant downsides inherent in EVs that fly in the face of their “Green” credentials which are often wilfully ignored by their proponents. It should be noted that new ICE are being developed right now (Renault/Geely for instance will make 5 million petrol/diesel/hybrid engines per year) and some car manufacturers like BMW have publicly stated they have no date set to end their production. Wisely, I believe, they’re keeping their powder dry.
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I think your comments are exactly on point, from everything going on there is no single solution!
 
I'm happy to stick with a hybrid which gives you the best of both worlds. My Prius easily does 80mpg on a run and the engine is off for more than 50% of any journey so although the car has done 24,000 the engine has run for less than half of that
 
Earlier this year I upgraded from the 2014 Zoe to a top of the range 2020 Zoe, the difference is very noticeable, softer ride (less VW like) quicker charging and longer range between charges 240 miles against 105 in the older car, I had all my original money back as a part exchange for the old one, probably paid over the odds as I bought it from the main dealer but at 11 grand with still the makers warranty to run on the car until Dec 2025 and the battery until 2028 I'm happy.
One comment I heard from a motor enthusiast is "If lithium ion batteries had been available in the early 1900s petrol cars would never have become the norm."
The older Zoe cost me in servicing for the whole 2+ years I owned it the price of two MOT passes (no faults) a cabin filter and top up the screen washer so I save at least £50 a month that I'd previously been popping into the tank of my Citroen C5 diesel.
 
Eric Gibson said:
Earlier this year I upgraded from the 2014 Zoe to a top of the range 2020 Zoe, the difference is very noticeable, softer ride (less VW like) quicker charging and longer range between charges 240 miles against 105 in the older car, I had all my original money back as a part exchange for the old one, probably paid over the odds as I bought it from the main dealer but at 11 grand with still the makers warranty to run on the car until Dec 2025 and the battery until 2028 I'm happy.
One comment I heard from a motor enthusiast is "If lithium ion batteries had been available in the early 1900s petrol cars would never have become the norm."
The older Zoe cost me in servicing for the whole 2+ years I owned it the price of two MOT passes (no faults) a cabin filter and top up the screen washer so I save at least £50 a month that I'd previously been popping into the tank of my Citroen C5 diesel.
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Sounds like a great deal for you! Congratulations…
 
I think the governmental knee jerk reaction to pollution etc. of banning the construction of fossil fuel based ICE vehicles should instead be a planned reduction, with less- polluting hybrid and bi-mode vehicles coming in first, possibly with cost incentives.
 
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Lloyd said:
I think the governmental knee jerk reaction to pollution etc. of banning the construction of fossil fuel based ICE vehicles should instead be a planned reduction, with less- polluting hybrid and bi-mode vehicles coming in first, possibly with cost incentives.
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I believe it should be emission based. In the US (not sure about the UK) most electricity comes from oil and gas with solar and wind a long way behind. Also disposal of all those batteries is going to be very expensive. The process for both the interior and exterior material are oil and gas derivatives as are so many other things.
Miles driven is also another consideration as are the economic effects, it’s not one size fits all at least as of yet. My brother in law purchased a Chevrolet EV new for $27,000 and got a government rebate of $7,000 net 20k. Plus he spent $2,000 putting a charger in his garage net 22K. The life of the battery is expected to be six years, the cost to replace that battery will be greater than the value of the car. Current dealer cost to replace and dispose of the old battery $16,000.
 
Richard, the figures given for uk for year to july 2024 are:

Wind 30%, biomass 6%, solar 4.5% and hydro 1.3%.


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mikejee said:
Richard, the figures given for uk for year to july 2024 are:

Wind 30%, biomass 6%, solar 4.5% and hydro 1.3%.


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Very good wind number! We are also fortunate where we live in Tennessee about 90% of our electricity is hydro and very inexpensive. Our electricity is distributed by a cooperative, not for profit who do an excellent job with both supply and support. Unfortunately that is not the case with states like California where it is expensive and supply marginal.
Another part of the equation is the vehicle content and while most manufacturers are trying to recycle the process is still oil and gas dependent. This I am sure will continue to develop.
 
The talk about six year battery life and the cost of replacing/recycling is largely oil company propaganda Richard, most EVs built after 2012 have batteries that will outlast the life of the car, have a second use life as storage batteries when they're below par for traction and even then have a value in recycling, nobody's going to be throwing them them in a skip.
For an example of second use take a look at the Ajax Stadium story here: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...es-power-dutch-stadiums-energy-storage-system
 
Eric Gibson said:
The talk about six year battery life and the cost of replacing/recycling is largely oil company propaganda Richard, most EVs built after 2012 have batteries that will outlast the life of the car, have a second use life as storage batteries when they're below par for traction and even then have a value in recycling, nobody's going to be throwing them them in a skip.
For an example of second use take a look at the Ajax Stadium story here: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...es-power-dutch-stadiums-energy-storage-system
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Eric, we need to a little careful. The stadium article is not the same application. The Nissan North American headquarters is an about 3 miles from where we live and a good friend is the head of Innovation with two Nissan plants in TN. They are continuing to fight to improve the life cycle of batteries beyond 6 or seven years.
Average miles driven in the UK is 7,400 vs 14,000 in the US. States like California it’s 24,000. Battery cycling is the killer. The example I gave visa vies battery life and cost is from a dealer not an oil company.
As I said earlier, it’s not one size fits all, if the application is correct it will be a winner!
 
Have a look at this one Richard, it's a bit out of date now as it was made during and just after the Covid shutdown here in the UK and Europe but you'll get the gist.
 
Eric Gibson said:
Have a look at this one Richard, it's a bit out of date now as it was made during and just after the Covid shutdown here in the UK and Europe but you'll get the gist.
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Thank you Eric..........I watched and did get the gist. Much of it I can agree with and is truly factual, other parts not so. As I have said previously this is not a "one size fits all" regardless of what some would like to say/believe. We have Nissan Leaf here as well as the Kia/Hyundai etc. Let's agree to disagree on some points and sit back and watch this whole thing unfold.
Have a great rest of your weekend!
 
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