• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Louisa Ann Ryland Mystery

M

mike jenks

master brummie
Hi

here goes. Spent loads of time on this one.
Always interedted in this one she was a benefactor
to the Birmingham Art College. My Wife obtained her degree
there in the late 60's. awards to Students under her name are
still given out.
Carl covered her with 3 great articles a few weeks ago and i noticed
it was in the range od Ancestory records. Normally we are in the late
18th century or before so spurred on i went searching.

No 1 problem. No record of Family in 1841 census records.
Info from earlier bits and bobs.

No 2 problem. Charlette Randall on all records is reffered to as a
Visitor ar Barford Hill.

No 3 problem. All writing stata that her Mother Ann (without an e)
Pemberton died in 1815 when Loiusa was one. Yet Anne with an E
was his wife. She died in 1862 and buried along side her Husband
at Sherboune Church.

No 4 problem. Louisa chose to be buried along side her friend
charlotte outside the church.

No 5 problem Most of Louisa huge donations occurred after her
"2nd Mothers Death". Anne Ryland kept her hand on the Tiller till
1862.

Have attatched bits and bobs.

Mike
 
Hi Mike, lovely photos. Firstly where is Barford Hill, secondly have you tried putting the name into the National Archives, wether it be the family name or the area name, it's amazing what gems you come up with?? Good Luck
 
Mike I find a lot of your dates incorrect as she kept her finger on the tiller
(prob. 5 ) till she died in 1889.........
Charles Alston Smith was the son of her "Lover" Henry Smith and left all her money to him on a condition he adopted her name and so left her fortune to the son of the man she never ceased to love.........what a tragic Love Story.........as her cousin Maria Louisa Phipson married her sweetheart
 
Mike, I have just had a look through the national archieves, there is quite alot to do with your lady, when you get onto the site search under name, it actually comes up as Smith Ryland archives. I've just found abit of information to do with mills from those archives, so thankyou for giving me the name. I think you will be looking for some time on there. Good luck :)
 
Louisa Ann Ryland

Hi

Have found another 3 photo's of Barford Hill.
Many thanks for your help. Visted the area the other day
Houses are now built on the site. Sad area the building fell into
decay and was demolished.

mike
 
I wouldn't put any emphasis on the spelling of names in research.
As you must have seen sometimes Ann has a E other times not.
Louisa herself when baptised had an E on her Anne and when she died in 1889 her death registration was Louisa Anne Ryland.
 
1841 census

On the 1841 they turn up at St Marylebone, Middlesex

Samuel Ryland 75
Ann Ryland 60
Louisa Ryland 20
Charlotte Randell 35

Class: HO107; Piece 677; Book: 16; Civil Parish: St Marylebone; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 14; Folio: 5; Page: 2; Line: 10

On the 1851 census i think the occupations for Louisa & Charlotte are Annuitant (receiver of Annuity) not accountant


Hope this is of some use
 
Hi

Brilliant 1841 in-place. Again Charlotte Randall part of the
household at Marylabone. the ages seem all over the place
typical census but Samuel Rylands last census. He died in
1843.
I think i have exhausted myself on this piece of work.
Although I'm not convinced why should see be buried outside
the Church at Sherbourne alongsode Charlotte and not in the
with her Father? Most of her great work took place after the
death of Ann Ryland Step Mother.
Again thanks for the 1841 record.

Mike Jenks
 
Didn't Miss Ryland also give Cannon Hill Park and other properties to the city? I haven't looked the details up, but I believe she was a major benefactor in Victorian times. It's interesting to hear more of her private life. I've always felt some loyalty to her, as I studied architecture for five years at the Art School in Margaret Street - one of her many bequests.
Peter
 
Step Mother?

Inscriptions on the Ryland tomb suggest that Ann Pemberton didn’t die in 1815 -

Here lies the body of Anne wife of Samuel Ryland formerly of Edgbaston, late of Sherborne in the county of Warwick Esq. and daughter of Saml Pemberton of Edgbaston Esq. by Mary his second wife, daughter of Wm Grosvenor of Market Drayton in the County of Salop Esq. Born the VI day of Augst. MDCCLXXIII departed this life the XX day of Octr. MDCCCLXII Aged LXXXIX

See all - https://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.ryland/105.110/mb.ashx
I would suggest that the Ann Ryland that died in 1815 was Samuel Ryland’s cousin . Samuel’s father John & Ann’s father, another Samuel were brothers.

Inscriptions from the Old Meeting House (Unitarian) , Birmingham -

In the Memory of SAMUEL RYLAND who died May 29th 1817 Aged 80 years of HANNAH his wife who died Aug 22nd 1823 Aged 80 years
and of his two daughters ELIZABETH wife of JOSEPH PRIESTLEY who died May 8th 1816 aged 46 and ANN RYLAND who died Sept 29th 1815 Aged 44 years
See all - https://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.ryland/301/mb.ashx

Burkes’s Commoner’s (pg 408) states that Anne died unmarried.

(Incidentally it also mentions Joseph Priestley above is the eldest son of THE Rev. Joseph Priestley who discovered oxygen etc)

Al
 
Hi

The evidence on this Tomb should be good enough.
As you say the Ann Ryland of 1815 appears to be another.
She is nothing to do with Louisa.LDS records confirm this.
Strange how so many writers have stated that Louisa mother
died in 1815.
It gets a little complicated with the death of her Father.
A fair ammount of soughting out the estate in the will papers.
I cant see how with her mother alive still how the daughter
inheirted the Estate.
I know sons usually inheritited after the fathers death.
Perhaps when Samuel died his friend Phipson took over splitting things
up to both mother and daughter. I know we are taling around
1843 and estates without sons are complicated things.
I think it took around 5 years to sought out. Pretty quick
for Solicesters.
Clearly the death of her mother completed Louisa full ownership
of the Estate. From then the vast donations including her own
will took place.

mike jenks
 
It's strange to think that in some ways, Louisa Ann Ryland did more for Birmingham than anyone else - even people like Chamberlain.
There must be plenty more to investigate about this remarkable lady.
Peter
 
You are right Peter this lady left several legasies to Birmingham including Cannon Hill Park, Small Heath Park, plus so many monatery donations. She was described as a quiet retireing lady who often made donations anonymously.
 
Didn't I read somewhere that the only condition to her generosity was that she remain anonymous but this was ignored after her death?
 
My father, who was educated at the 'Ryland Memorial School of Art', in West Bromwich, used to tell me that Louisa Anne Ryland was the true 'Mother of Birmingham' and that she had never been given her proper due.
 
Saw that in yesterday's Mail.

I only really knew that she donated Cannon Hill Park. Didn't know about Small Heath Park.

Here's here plaque at Cannon Hill.



And a building in the city centre named after her!

 
An interesting zoom talk tonight by Irene de Boo on Elizabeth Ryland. I did put a link on earlier, but now realise it seems to have disappeared in the recent problems. Elizabeth became interested din Louisa during lockdown, as she lives nexrt to Cannon hill Park. Louisa is well known for donatingCannon hill to the city, and also ,on the council asking if she would sell land in small Heath for a park, saying, no, but she would donate it and pay for the park's ;layout (as she did with Cannon Hill). She gave much money and land (probably equivalent to at least £11million in today's money) towards the city. Although it is often said that she inherited her money from her father, this is not strictly correct, as the money went to her mother on her fathers death. Although there is evidence that Louisa and her mother were both involved in donations while her mother was alive, the large donations only occurred after her mother's death . It is thought possible that her father, who was a very canny businessman, and invested wisely in canals , trained Louisa in business, and hoped for her to possibly marry well in high circles, taking her and the family to live for periods in France to expand her education. Louisa did not in fact marry, which has resulted in speculation as to the reason. She was able to have control over the money as she was not married. Before 1882 money of married women was the property of their husband, and it is perhaps significant that on her death in 1889 she added a number of gifts to women with the specific instruction that it was for the woman's benefit " for her sole and separate use, free from marital control". T
One man, whom later married, has been mentioned with respect to her , Henry Smith, Not much is known about him. He was twice mayor of Birmingham, and a brassfounder, though possibly not high enough up the scale to enthuse Louisa's father. However a large proportion of Louisa's estate went to Henry's son including the Barford Estate , near Warwick, where Louisa lived, the latter with the proviso that he change his name to Smith-Ryland. this, of course, brings many questions into play.
I asked if Irene was planning to publish her work. she said that she would like to, but wanted to do a little more work on it first
 
mikejee said:
An interesting zoom talk tonight by Irene de Boo on Elizabeth Ryland. I did put a link on earlier, but now realise it seems to have disappeared in the recent problems. Elizabeth became interested din Louisa during lockdown, as she lives nexrt to Cannon hill Park. Louisa is well known for donatingCannon hill to the city, and also ,on the council asking if she would sell land in small Heath for a park, saying, no, but she would donate it and pay for the park's ;layout (as she did with Cannon Hill). She gave much money and land (probably equivalent to at least £11million in today's money) towards the city. Although it is often said that she inherited her money from her father, this is not strictly correct, as the money went to her mother on her fathers death. Although there is evidence that Louisa and her mother were both involved in donations while her mother was alive, the large donations only occurred after her mother's death . It is thought possible that her father, who was a very canny businessman, and invested wisely in canals , trained Louisa in business, and hoped for her to possibly marry well in high circles, taking her and the family to live for periods in France to expand her education. Louisa did not in fact marry, which has resulted in speculation as to the reason. She was able to have control over the money as she was not married. Before 1882 money of married women was the property of their husband, and it is perhaps significant that on her death in 1889 she added a number of gifts to women with the specific instruction that it was for the woman's benefit " for her sole and separate use, free from marital control". T
One man, whom later married, has been mentioned with respect to her , Henry Smith, Not much is known about him. He was twice mayor of Birmingham, and a brassfounder, though possibly not high enough up the scale to enthuse Louisa's father. However a large proportion of Louisa's estate went to Henry's son including the Barford Estate , near Warwick, where Louisa lived, the latter with the proviso that he change his name to Smith-Ryland. this, of course, brings many questions into play.
I asked if Irene was planning to publish her work. she said that she would like to, but wanted to do a little more work on it first
Click to expand...
Irene de Boo is giving a talk on Louisa Ryland and Cannon Hill Park at a meeting of the Balsall Heath Local History Society on Oct 30th at 11.00 at the St Pauls venture in Malvern Street, B12 9NN. Should be interesting - see attached poster.
 

Attachments

mike jenks said:
Hi

here goes. Spent loads of time on this one.
Always interedted in this one she was a benefactor
to the Birmingham Art College. My Wife obtained her degree
there in the late 60's. awards to Students under her name are
still given out.
Carl covered her with 3 great articles a few weeks ago and i noticed
it was in the range od Ancestory records. Normally we are in the late
18th century or before so spurred on i went searching.

No 1 problem. No record of Family in 1841 census records.
Info from earlier bits and bobs.

No 2 problem. Charlette Randall on all records is reffered to as a
Visitor ar Barford Hill.

No 3 problem. All writing stata that her Mother Ann (without an e)
Pemberton died in 1815 when Loiusa was one. Yet Anne with an E
was his wife. She died in 1862 and buried along side her Husband
at Sherboune Church.

No 4 problem. Louisa chose to be buried along side her friend
charlotte outside the church.

No 5 problem Most of Louisa huge donations occurred after her
"2nd Mothers Death". Anne Ryland kept her hand on the Tiller till
1862.

Have attatched bits and bobs.

Mike
Click to expand...
I won the Louisa AnnRyland prize for design in my final year of 3D Design at Birmingham Poly on graduation. in 1980, I think it was £25. Her name lives on however I never knew why a prize was given in her name… now I do… thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top