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WW1 Fallen & Boldmere, St Michael's Church

Lady Penelope

master brummie
I am really struggling with this. The memorial in St Michael's has P. Pring. I'm sure somewhere I have a photo of the memorial where he died and that it said 'P.Pring serving as E C Paul'. I am bearing in mind that mistakes are made on memorials.

Also, the death notice from Maurice gives his age as 32 and yet his gravestone at Ryecroft Cemetery, Blakenhall records his age as 27.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Lady P,

It seems that the rarer the surname, the more difficult it is to unravel! :) I've got a similar one on my tree with the surname EADON - forenames all tie up but there's a 20 year gap in the middle of the data and there is obviously a mismatch somewhere because the ages at death are 20 years out. I'll crack it eventually, but it can be incredibly frustrating.

EDIT: Also, I couldn't remember giving you a Death Notice - I didn't, it came from Janice! :)

Maurice
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
E C Paul is Edgar's brother Edward Charles. In that case we might have been chasing the wrong brother. As for age war records are not always accurate as we know so the difference did not surprise me.
 

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pjmburns

master brummie
Now I am confused - the soldiers effects state that Edward Charles Paul's effects went to his widow Jessica Alice Pring. I thought she was married to Edgar.
Done some more digging and realised they are the same person. Same number and regiment - I have no idea how he could serve under both names.
Somehow Edgar must have served under his older brother's name.
 

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sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Janice,

I'm just wondering whether he wanted to hide his criminal record from the Army, perhaps hoping for a commission? Also, why did he end up in the Northumberland Fusiliers - I've found no connection with that area of the country so far.

It also looks as if his widow married an older man, Charles F. Clough, but not until 1930. He appears to have died four years later in Rugby, although they married in St Giles London, but she not until 1970 in Warrington.

EDIT: The solicitor, Henry L. Reddish, lived next door to them in Rugby according to the 1939 Register and she was by now living alone of "private means".

Maurice
Clough2.jpg
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
I did wonder if it was to do with his record but that still leaves the question of why both names are listed - did he enlist under his brother's name, if so what happened to his brother? Interestingly Edward was 5 years older than Edgar which would explain the age discrepancy between the war record and the Walsall grave.
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
Answering my own question: Charles Edward Pring (birth registered in Walsall in Oct quarter 1882) listed as Edward Charles Pring on 1901 census seems to have died in 1907 as there is a death registered then in Walsall. Both the census and death record state birth as in 1883 but as it was a last quarter reg that is not too far out.
So Edgar seems to have enlisted under his brother's name (presumably because of his criminal record) and using his Mother's maiden name. Edgar is killed in 1918, the death is recorded as Edward Charles aged 32, personal effects go to Jessica, his widow, the body is brought home and buried in Walsall with Edgar's name and age. At some point Edward's name is added to the memorial in France - at a later date, I assume, the mistake is realised and the entry for Edgar is added.
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
After all that we still do not know why he, if it is the right person, is on the Boldmere memorial.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I am really struggling with this. The memorial in St Michael's has P. Pring. I'm sure somewhere I have a photo of the memorial where he died and that it said 'P.Pring serving as E C Paul'. I am bearing in mind that mistakes are made on memorials.

Also, the death notice from Maurice gives his age as 32 and yet his gravestone at Ryecroft Cemetery, Blakenhall records his age as 27.
Here you are Pen - doesn't say P Pring: I wonder if someone got confused when the entry I posted earlier said Pring (served as Paul) Edgar James and thought it meant Paul Pring rather than Paul as a surname?

1540159443218.png
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
I think you've got it too! Well done ladies and sorry I got confused with who posted what! Very bewildering isn't it? I wonder if the person who did the memorial in Boldmere thought that the Paul was his Christian name? Then that would read properly wouldn't it? Still not sure why he's on our memorial but I do recall that he joined up with his brother's birth certificate and often when soldiers had a 'funny' name they changed it to avoid being ribbed - he seems a wily character so probably gave that excuse when he joined up. I found quite a few aliases in my searches.

I will have a good look later as I still have a couple of queries.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Looking for Boldmere connection:
Now trying to check on Sarah Ann and John - interestingly on the 1900 US census they had been married 8 years, and Sarah is mother to 3 children only one of whom is living - Maud born New Jersey 1st Dec 1886. Maud trained as a nurse at Birmingham General Hospital - found her on 1924 nurses register - address c/o her aunt Mrs Basford in Market Drayton
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Janice, I still wonder if there any connection at all with the Boldmere Prings.

I think I'll email St Matthew's, the parish church in Walsall, and see if any Prings appear on their memorial.
In fact, I'll do it now!
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Penny do you have any idea how it was decided which names went on a memorial? I am sure I have seen it posted somewhere that you could just ask. I am not sure that is correct. As you says there may be no connection with Boldmere but there must be a reason why he is on the memorial. I have just been re-reading this thread and found most of the facts were already there just not pulled together. You referred to a Percy Pring (#23) in Frederick Road - did that lead to a dead end as well?
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Janice, St Michael's is the parish church of Boldmere and as far as I know, all the men who lived in the parish are listed on our memorial even if they are members of other churches or no church at all. There must have been a central office where all the information was collected though.
I've been to Sutton Library this afternoon and trawled through all the Electoral Register records from 1915 to 1939 and can find no Prings listed. I think I had better visit the churchyard again and take another look at the Pring grave. I don't remember it giving many details and I asked at the church office but there was nothing much in the burial register. I will revisit though, sometimes you miss things.
I found the WW1 project folder but there is just a blank space for everything to do with P Pring. We did share information with this so I'm not surprised.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
There was a suggestion in #39 from Derek I believe that names for the war memorials could be put forward by any local family wishing to commemorate a relative even though that relative had little or no connection with the locality. I wondered if it was a relative, if so it could be a totally different surname. Edgar had several sisters - if they married and lived locally I suppose they could have requested it but that is a massive ask to search that out. It must have taken you ages to check the erolls.
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
I'd missed that Janice. I'll try to make a space and research his sisters. Walsall borders Sutton Coldfield so that's a really strong possibility, well thought out. It may take a while but I need a break from the project I'm working on at the moment.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Sorry I missed this somehow. Don't know if you have looked at all - I don't know the boundaries for St Michael's church.
Mary Ellen married Ernest Kirby in 1903. On the 1911 census she is living with her husband and family at 88 Cecil Street.
Ada Jane does not marry until 1924 so is at home in Walsall with Mother Elizabeth and Edgar.
Bessie marries Ernest Quick in 1906 and in 1911 is at 53 Tong Street Walsall.
Brother Frederick is living at 12 Teddesley Street Walsall on 1911 census.
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I found a marriage for Louisa in 1895 but then I can't find her and her husband on 1901 or 1911 census. I did find a possible death in 1915 which would possibly rule her out.
 
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