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winson green prison

thankyou, I will get a copy of the book, this episode caused my mothers family to disintergrate, nan had a breakdown & went into All Saints for the rest of her life, grandad became an alcoholic & drank himself to death, my Mom was left to fend for herself age 8 & was picked up by the priest whilst digging up & eating raw potatoes because she was hungry, she was taken to her aunts house to live, but nans familiy blamed my grandads belfast genes for Jimmys behaviour & nans breakdown & did not want a farrell child in the house, other brother was abandoned also & looked after by a barmaid. Mom was told that her Dad & brother had gone to Ireland without her, her brother was told Mom had been adopted, neither story was true. They then lived only a few miles away from eachother forthe rest of their lives and only met again last year whe my cousin & I found eachother on the internet. Funny old world
 
Having worked in several of the Prisons around the midlands Winson Green being one of these I can tell you the that the "Topping Shed" was on "A" wing (the long term wing) and was indeed converted to the Prison Canteen (shop) after the death penalty was abolished.

I was told that the shop was the condemned prisoners cell and the cell next to it which I never saw opened was the actual place where the execution was carried out. I have just taken a look on Google maps and it looks to me as if "A" wing is still standing.

Phil
 
thankyou, I will get a copy of the book, this episode caused my mothers family to disintergrate, nan had a breakdown & went into All Saints for the rest of her life, grandad became an alcoholic & drank himself to death, my Mom was left to fend for herself age 8 & was picked up by the priest whilst digging up & eating raw potatoes because she was hungry, she was taken to her aunts house to live, but nans familiy blamed my grandads belfast genes for Jimmys behaviour & nans breakdown & did not want a farrell child in the house, other brother was abandoned also & looked after by a barmaid. Mom was told that her Dad & brother had gone to Ireland without her, her brother was told Mom had been adopted, neither story was true. They then lived only a few miles away from eachother forthe rest of their lives and only met again last year whe my cousin & I found eachother on the internet. Funny old world
Tiggy that is such a sad story how the actions of one person can destroy a whole family. I can only say I am pleased your Mom and her brother have been reunited after all these years. My best wishes to you and your family especially your Mom and Uncle.
 
what a sad story tiggy. it just shows there is not just one victim for these crimes. apart from the families and friends of the victim of course, the family of the perpetrator also can suffer for the rest of their lives, as your mom, her brother, gran and grandad did.
 
Its a bit late in the day but I have just come across this.In the 1940's I was working at Avery,10 mins walk from Winson Green Prison.
One day riding on the 11 bus we passed the prison about 7.45 am,there was a small crowd outside the gates,I did not know a hanging
was due.At the works usually a busy and noisy place.just before 8 am all activity and noise stopped,I suppose the idea of some one
being killed made every one think about what was happening.
Keep smiling
John H
 
Slightly off topic, but didnt Charlie Wilson the train robber escape from the green ? by climbing a ladder that had been left against the wall ?

Anyone know of any other 'daring escapes ? Must've been a few over the years.
 
Yes I remember that and wasn't there some talk that he had inside help to get from his cell to the wall and he escaped on the canal side of the wall and his cell was in the basement secure area.
 
Hi bobby
Yes it Was very true it was An officier that helped and set up the escape
he was an londoner and lived in the front houses of the prison officiers houses that used to be
on the front of the prison walls there back gardens was the back garden prison walls
he escaped from the right hand wing witch was on the cannal side behind the officiers mess club house
with a big furtiture wagon wich was loaded with matresses
this guy was later arrestest and charged and kicked out of he service and ended up behind bars himself
i actualy knew the guy and the family
there was another serious escape from the green any years ago where a prisoner a hardened crim;
whom was a big time in brum in the fortys or the fiftys
whom actualy walked out thethe main gate the prisoner made a gun out of soap and painted it black
the officier whom i will not name for legal reasons because of his family being alive was over powered
and marched through the prison by this crim; to the gates where he held this dummy gun to the officiers back
no other prison officier at the time would challenge him and he walked out with him at the gate and drove off
the prison officier was so embarrassed later because he got the nick name by other prisoners
shouting and calling bang bang , ? , by his name
and i think maggies dad may have been working around that time because he was an officier at the prison years ago it could have been before his time he started there
in those days th prison officiers was hardened men and stood no messing ,they was the HMP .Officers
and the prisoners had to call them sir when asked any think and say yes sir to them
along with the govenors they showed no passion
bread and water and sew mail bags in a dim lit cell
not like the so called bunch of half baked security firms of today dress scruffy half intrested in there jobs
and they loose more prisoners than locked up
you can see there prison vans sitting in lay byes or on garage forecourts waiting for the shift to end
in the days of the good old HMP , It would never happend and no drugs would get passed them
coming into the prisons
theres more money and druggs inside prison than there is out side in civvy strret
and alot is brought in by prison security officciers
have a nice day every body best wishes Astonian ;;;;
 
Shera's list of hanging at Winson Green Prison.
The name of Harold Merry.hanged on 10 Sep. 1942 is of great interest to me.On 29th March 1942 Harold murded Joyce Dixon.Joyce lived
at 10 Rowan Way,Northfield.A small cull-desack on the Austin Village.I lived at 8 Rowan Way then aged 12.I can not remember Joyce
but I was freinds with her younger sister.At the time I knew some details of the crime but some time ago I obtained a copy of
The Executed of the Twentieth Century by John J Eddleston.It covers the Merry case plus all the ones on Shera's list1941 to 1952 at Bimingham
plus many more.The Merry case is rather sad.He was about 39 and she was 27.He was married with 5 Children,they both worked at the
Austin.They started an afair and fell in love.To cut the story short.he could not get a divorce,Joyce was in trouble with her mother who
wanted her to end the afair.The two lovers according to his defence made a suicide pact indeed a piece of paper was found saying they
had agreed to end it all signed by both of them.He tried to strangle Joyce and then put her into a pond on farm land behind her house.He
said he tried to kill him self but failed.After her body was found the cause of death was drowning.He was tried starting 17th July.He was
found guilty.An appeal was heard on 26 th August and lost,As we know he was strung up 10 th Sept.They did not mess about
in those days.
Hope this is of interest
John H
 
I was at school with a boy whose father did death-watch at Winson Green, presumably for one of the last three hanged there.

The last hangings in the UK were in 1964.

One of my true-crime interests is the A6 Case (James Hanratty) of 1961.

Big Gee

I went to school with a boy who's father as the governor of the prison around 1958

ladywood
 
thankyou, I will get a copy of the book, this episode caused my mothers family to disintergrate, nan had a breakdown & went into All Saints for the rest of her life, grandad became an alcoholic & drank himself to death, my Mom was left to fend for herself age 8 & was picked up by the priest whilst digging up & eating raw potatoes because she was hungry, she was taken to her aunts house to live, but nans familiy blamed my grandads belfast genes for Jimmys behaviour & nans breakdown & did not want a farrell child in the house, other brother was abandoned also & looked after by a barmaid. Mom was told that her Dad & brother had gone to Ireland without her, her brother was told Mom had been adopted, neither story was true. They then lived only a few miles away from eachother forthe rest of their lives and only met again last year whe my cousin & I found eachother on the internet. Funny old world


Hello ‘tiggy’,

My name is Mick Coleman I moved from Brum approx. 32 yrs. ago and I now live in Devon with my wife. Our two girls, with their families live a few minuets away.

My Mom also lives very close. About 2 weeks ago whilst on one of my daily visits I found mom crying. When I asked why she was upset, she told me she was thinking about the time ‘they hung our poor Jimmy’.

She recounted the time Jimmy’s mom (This lady I think must be your Nan.) had visited my Nan’s house in Witton. (Nan’s married name was Wilson her maiden name Gibbons.)
This was after 1949. Mom recalled a few of the sad thinks that had been said on that day.

I know a little of the story about James Farrell. I’ve heard it a few times before and so I knew why mom was upset. On this occasion I tried to change the subject so as not to up-set her even more. However, without asking mom I have been trying to find out more about Jimmy and as a result, I’ve found your thread on this site.

Also if I may it this point say many thanks to Wendy ‘Mistress Brummie’, for her posting 3 days ago @ 14:04 also Shera ‘true brummie’, for her posting 5 days ago @ 17:15 and 3 days ago @ 14:18.

I am very new to this type of research and so may I apologize to all others I have yet to read and therefore not said thanks to here?

Mom is not in great health. Her ‘agoraphobia’, keeps her locked within the walls of a small but nice flat which she rents. Because mom can’t go out she lives with her memories some like these ones are sad, however I know she needs to talk about them and share. I am not a good listener and so I hope others may help us both out.

Today Wednesday 21.04.10.

I have found your postings and I’ve read them to Mom. I asked her if I could put you all in touch. She said yes, but by that time once again the tears were flowing. Mom did go on to say that Jimmy called my Nan, Aunt. This I think was a mark of affection or respect rather than their actual relationship. I think cousins, to be their real. Sorry, I didn’t pursue it.

Mom would like to her from you. We also have a relation who knows very well of this family tragedy. I intend to contact this lady who I’m sure would be happy to help you if you wish.

All the best
Mick.

PS It is now Thursday 22.04.10
Sorry it’s taken an extra day but I had to register before Posting. I have now amended the thanks bit and the relevant times above. I hope it makes sense. And I hope I'm doing this bit right!
 
Hi phil
yes you are quite correct in your statement our friend had been winded up by that story
about the hanging shed. and yes its correct to state it was in fact A wing where the hanging cell
was and A wing is still being used today and also the actual cell is still being used by other prisoners
and the one or two prisoners are not aware of the actual cell that was actualy the condemed cell
that they may be in ninety percent of the serving officiers themselves today are unaware of this cell
A wing was used for catery for big time crims the hardedend crims with a high with an high IQ mentalability
or whom would challenge the system in making a possible break out of prison so they was contained in A wing
which would be a centre point in the prison building of the prison
they was for armed robbers bg time crooks even charlie wilson was held on A wing and some of the kray
gang , before being transfeered to long lartin in worcestershire high security jail
also to mention any body whom got five years or more for crime would be place on there on there
first day of committal for observation on A wing in a cell and would be checked by officiers on the hour
for the first month of being in there they would be checked through the spy hole on the hour
and there meals brought to them and escorted to the toilets but today the toilets are all in there cells
so now they do not have the routine of slopping out with potts Like years ago
After the hanging was abolished the condemed cell was used but not emediately it was afew years later on
if some one had the time to go back in time and look on the micro films of the old news papers
at the birmingham libary and i think it was in around the 1960 -62 the birmingham mail or the despatch
as it was called them days on the frnt head lines on the front page it stated the condition of winson green prison
and the ove crowded conditions and the smell and it said by a certain year this prison was to closed down
but as you can see it never was nor likely to be all they have done is expanded it and revamped it and built new walls and removed the old big gates and they have gone back to the extection of the old ward blocks of
lodge rd infirmry hospital all saints and rebuilt and moderenised there security wards which had bars on
the wards in that hospital had such prison like conditions for severe mental health patients
where th wards had to have the same type of a prison cell door on
the green did expand to these to ease the over crowding
have a nice day every body best wishes Astonian ;;
 
Hello Mick

thankyou for getting in touch, my cousin found my post & I hope I havent upset her, perhaps should have said something, but I will speak to her soon, the incident caused a lot of pain to many people and a lot of untruths were told to make things worse. Maybe now is the time to put those old gosts to rest, it sounds as if your Mom was very affected by the whole thing. Im happy to speak to your mom if you want


Hello ‘tiggy’,

My name is Mick Coleman I moved from Brum approx. 32 yrs. ago and I now live in Devon with my wife. Our two girls, with their families live a few minuets away.

My Mom also lives very close. About 2 weeks ago whilst on one of my daily visits I found mom crying. When I asked why she was upset, she told me she was thinking about the time ‘they hung our poor Jimmy’.

She recounted the time Jimmy’s mom (This lady I think must be your Nan.) had visited my Nan’s house in Witton. (Nan’s married name was Wilson her maiden name Gibbons.)
This was after 1949. Mom recalled a few of the sad thinks that had been said on that day.

I know a little of the story about James Farrell. I’ve heard it a few times before and so I knew why mom was upset. On this occasion I tried to change the subject so as not to up-set her even more. However, without asking mom I have been trying to find out more about Jimmy and as a result, I’ve found your thread on this site.

Also if I may it this point say many thanks to Wendy ‘Mistress Brummie’, for her posting 3 days ago @ 14:04 also Shera ‘true brummie’, for her posting 5 days ago @ 17:15 and 3 days ago @ 14:18.

I am very new to this type of research and so may I apologize to all others I have yet to read and therefore not said thanks to here?

Mom is not in great health. Her ‘agoraphobia’, keeps her locked within the walls of a small but nice flat which she rents. Because mom can’t go out she lives with her memories some like these ones are sad, however I know she needs to talk about them and share. I am not a good listener and so I hope others may help us both out.

Today Wednesday 21.04.10.

I have found your postings and I’ve read them to Mom. I asked her if I could put you all in touch. She said yes, but by that time once again the tears were flowing. Mom did go on to say that Jimmy called my Nan, Aunt. This I think was a mark of affection or respect rather than their actual relationship. I think cousins, to be their real. Sorry, I didn’t pursue it.

Mom would like to her from you. We also have a relation who knows very well of this family tragedy. I intend to contact this lady who I’m sure would be happy to help you if you wish.

All the best
Mick.

PS It is now Thursday 22.04.10
Sorry it’s taken an extra day but I had to register before Posting. I have now amended the thanks bit and the relevant times above. I hope it makes sense. And I hope I'm doing this bit right!
 
Hi Tiggy( feels strange calling you that.) What a wonderful thing the internet is. After all these years we have not know about each other and my dad was living his own lies. After 50 years all the truth is out now and it can only be a good thing. Im so glad we have found each other anne and I feel like ive know you for years and its only been a short while. Thanks to mick and am looking forward to out chat with your family member as this may fill in a few blanks. Dad isnt well but I know hes found his sister and that means more to him than anything. James Farrell ( my uncle) was hung in winson green prison and this is such a shame. I would like to contact the family of Joan Marney if not to say how sorry we are for there loss, as a mother now myself I am unable to immagine how hard it must be to lose a child in this way. Enough of that speak to you soon anne love you always susan.x
 
Posts 6 and 7. Have you noticed every person executed was male - strange not even ONE female !!!!! Eric
 
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i have a book listing the 40 people who were hanged at winson green prison. the last murder was of a thomas bates at his newsagents shop at 176 lee bank road, edgbaston in june, 1962. there is a picture of the shop in the book.

i was surprised that the last hanging was as late as nov 1962. i thought the death penalty had gone by the fifties. i remember mom saying how the crowds would gather outside the gate to see the death notice being posted on the door.

Although the last executions in Britain were carried out in August 1964 (for murder) and the death penalty for murder was abolished in England and Wales in December 1965, capital punishment for other offences in the UK was not finally abolished until 9 November 1998, and was not made irrevocable until 1 February 2004.

The man hanged in November 1962 was not the last to occupy the death cell at Winson Green Prison. The last occupier was Christopher Simcox, who was reprieved in 1964, four days before his scheduled execution. The first to be informed of the reprieve after the condemned man himself were a group holding a vigil against capital punishment outside the prison. It was clear that the Governor of the prison was as relieved as the invigilating group not to have to carry out the barbarous function of overseeing the execution.
 
Hi there, Im new to the forum, unfortunately one of the list of exercuted was my uncle James Farrell, Ive been researching my family history because my Mom & her other brother were separated at the time of the hanging & only n=met up again last year, it is a tragic story & we are keen to know the details so that the guosts can be laid to rest, any info would be most welcome

Hello tiggy I am new at to the forum like you and doing the family history. I went into birmingham history forum and found you. saying James Farrell was your uncle, I new Jimmy I
put a letter in but I think I did it wrong I have a lot to tell you. Hope you let me know if you see this as Jimmy was related to us from pommie
 
hello pommie, thankyou for getting in touch, I will PM you

hello tiggy nice to hear from you as I said I new James Farrell he always came to our house with his mom we lived in ward st aston. my cousin said jimmy's mother was
my grandmother sister but I cannot see this has my father always said jimmy was his second couisn his name was Kinght my nan name was Blick. I remember the
day jimmy came to our house in his soldier unform I was 10 years old at the time. I tell more next time sorry taken so long getting back to you
pommie
 
Ernest charles harding 1955 was my grandad, I'd love to know where his remains were buried
 
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