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Winson Green Prison Gates

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
good grief BB i do believe you have found a shot of the original gates and entrance to winson greet prison..need to check more but i will put money on it

lyn
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Lyn

The built the new walls and gate complex around the old ones and then I believe they demolished them. There was some talk about keeping the old gatehouse behind the new walls at the time, but I don't think it happened.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi phil and no that did not happen as confirmed by a friend of mind who has recently retired after many years as a prison officer at winson green... the gates were most likely chucked on a skip:mad: but i would be very happy to be proved wrong..

lyn
 

DavidGrain

master brummie
The old gates to Winson Green Prison had the City Coat of Arms in terracotta with the error of having the first and fourth quarters of the shield back to front. A great pity if this was not preserved.
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
View attachment 124555 yes they were BB and we dont know where they have gone either...its deffo the prison gates here is todays view taken from villiers st.. and here is a photo of them




https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4...4!1ssD8RNJ8i8_FL4WoEp3bF6w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Lyn if you had walked to the left of the gates for about 200/300yds , you'd come across about 20 cottages on Lodge Rd where some of the warders lived . This was late 50's very early 60's , at lunchtime you could see some of them coming home for lunch every warder had about two foot of chain hanging out of their pocket with the keys jangling in their pocket . Do not forget either "Wilson in Winson" this was the heading for an advert in the Evening Mail by the train robbers to get him out , he got out over the wall .
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Williamstreeter

Just a point, the only key that the warder would have had on those chains would be their front door key as no keys were allowed out of the prison. Even outside contractors working in the prison had to undergo a very strict security check every time they entered and left through those gates.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
Looking at the Mail photos it seems that in the earlier one, with the 1920's car outside, there was a side entrance on the right hand side of the large doors which maybe was how staff gained access to the prison.
The new picture shows that door removed and replaced with a blanked out window? but replaced by a wicket door in the right hand door of the large doors.
A family member who was a prison officer at one time was advised, when first starting the job, that he should never let the incarcerated get sight of any keys. :eek:
 

cookie273uk

master brummie
I used to maintain the prison telephone system in the 50's and what a palaver to get in and out, especially if I carried my ladders, I had a warder with a dog with me at all times. I remember I had to enter and exit through a small gate in one of the larger gates, I seem to remember there being an inner gate too. Eric
 

Radiorails

master brummie
The small gate you mention Eric is the wicket gate I referred to. I can imagine the consternation about the ladders. :D I guess you were watched like a hawk both by the staff and the residents.
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
Williamstreeter

Just a point, the only key that the warder would have had on those chains would be their front door key as no keys were allowed out of the prison. Even outside contractors working in the prison had to undergo a very strict security check every time they entered and left through those gates.
Phil it must have been the chain rattling then, this was in the late 50's very early 60's as I said , warders were warders in those days not like the G4S guarding them nowadays .
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
There used to be a phrase about the inmates being in charge of the asylum. With G2S its the potential inmates in charge of the prison, certainly with respect to the managers of G4S
 

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
william streeter yes you are correct there was no riots in that prison at winson green because before the goverment sold out to private sectorthere was prison officiers there was called HMP prison officiers and these me was big tall men and ex forces and police officers they was toughen men whom could handle people and they was regentmentaly trained the prisonors would not step out of line or there back chat to these officiers and they gained respect from the prisonors officiers and prisonors was disoplined by the officiers and they was called to answer back and call him sir they stood no nonsense from any of them i have spoken to one or two old HMP officiers over the year or two and spoke to them about today carrying on he said themselfes if they was back in command these situations would not carry on it was the biggest mistake this goverment ever done they only used to carry one key each there would be two officiers on one landing meaning a one wing and they was checked in and out on and off duty through the gates they used the wicket gat for ladders they woud open the big side of the gates like also the lorrys came through as well it was only vistors of familys that had to walk throgh the wickey gate for visiting and once through there you had to wait whilst they closed that gat like wise deliverys they would be trapped between the togages as ther is large gages after the front gates lories was checked in and out bounds and there was a stench of urinals flowing in the wind from the prison wings itself up to the front gates in the early fiftys there was only one break out front the front gates and that there was a prison officier by the name of wooly whom got caught with his trouser so to speak some one nicked his key and made a soap impresion and they stole is key they got out of the wing and through to the gate house where he threatend to kill s with a so called gun in his hand he walked out for so long before he got caught the prison officier got laughted had and every time he was on the wing they called bang , bang but there was never any riots with in that period of forty and fiftys and cells was searched regular for contraband butvthese guys wasbthe real gansters of yesters years safe blowers and big time robbers and fraudesters and they showed respect to the officiers they bhad no choice any way when they was caught by police it was hands up officier officer and they walked with the copper on the street and showed respect but getting back to winson green a couple of years ago i visit winson green and much to my surprized i could see why there is riots for a start the prison officers aint really prison officers they was little stout people men and omen whom can hardly walk some with long hair down the back and little people thats how the prisoners fore seen they are not robust people from all different trades post men traffic wardend and christ not what else yes i agre they do there best and very long hours but i can there would not be the same as our old HmP WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THESE PRISON OFFICIERS THEY ARE DOING LIFE TIME AS PRISISONER Alan Astonian;;
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
william streeter yes you are correct there was no riots in that prison at winson green because before the goverment sold out to private sectorthere was prison officiers there was called HMP prison officiers and these me was big tall men and ex forces and police officers they was toughen men whom could handle people and they was regentmentaly trained the prisonors would not step out of line or there back chat to these officiers and they gained respect from the prisonors officiers and prisonors was disoplined by the officiers and they was called to answer back and call him sir they stood no nonsense from any of them i have spoken to one or two old HMP officiers over the year or two and spoke to them about today carrying on he said themselfes if they was back in command these situations would not carry on it was the biggest mistake this goverment ever done they only used to carry one key each there would be two officiers on one landing meaning a one wing and they was checked in and out on and off duty through the gates they used the wicket gat for ladders they woud open the big side of the gates like also the lorrys came through as well it was only vistors of familys that had to walk throgh the wickey gate for visiting and once through there you had to wait whilst they closed that gat like wise deliverys they would be trapped between the togages as ther is large gages after the front gates lories was checked in and out bounds and there was a stench of urinals flowing in the wind from the prison wings itself up to the front gates in the early fiftys there was only one break out front the front gates and that there was a prison officier by the name of wooly whom got caught with his trouser so to speak some one nicked his key and made a soap impresion and they stole is key they got out of the wing and through to the gate house where he threatend to kill s with a so called gun in his hand he walked out for so long before he got caught the prison officier got laughted had and every time he was on the wing they called bang , bang but there was never any riots with in that period of forty and fiftys and cells was searched regular for contraband butvthese guys wasbthe real gansters of yesters years safe blowers and big time robbers and fraudesters and they showed respect to the officiers they bhad no choice any way when they was caught by police it was hands up officier officer and they walked with the copper on the street and showed respect but getting back to winson green a couple of years ago i visit winson green and much to my surprized i could see why there is riots for a start the prison officers aint really prison officers they was little stout people men and omen whom can hardly walk some with long hair down the back and little people thats how the prisoners fore seen they are not robust people from all different trades post men traffic wardend and christ not what else yes i agre they do there best and very long hours but i can there would not be the same as our old HmP WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THESE PRISON OFFICIERS THEY ARE DOING LIFE TIME AS PRISISONER Alan Astonian;;
Astonian I couldn't agree with you more the old warders were the best , someone told me in the late 60's there were more gangsters in G4S than what there were in London , how true that was I don't know , but they certainly ain't prisonwarders
 

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
Hi Wiliamstreeter Very true to word spoken if you seen the tv news on those days of the last prison riots at the green
of the year gone bye did you see the riot squad ging in to sort them out ,well they are the team from the HMP SQUAD
These guys are from the excisting teams of officiers and these are the people they should be employed by the prison service and get rid of the gs services they have lost prisoners more them of incastrated in transit even let them walk out the gates being wrong prisoner being released
Getting back to these people they have employed most if not all are anybody we had a young traffic warden a young lady a couple of years back now she packed up the traffic warden and went into the prison for a warden jof she would not stand a chance in there if you walk down winson green road you would the diffence of these guys so called prison officiers they are very unkempt in appearence looked liked they slept in there uniforms some with long hair tied back little people of old and aged unfit to wear the uniform andlittle in height and grossly over weight half of them cant walk back to the prison and as i saidbefore they employ any body whom got two legs and an arm and the women officiers are little ladies half of hem you would think they are expecting by the size of them they could not handle them
on the subject of the old days gangester of brum there is one or two living whom i know fom the old days these are the true gangsters of yester years andare astoinians and summer laners whom i nsee from time to tim in a pub called the windmill dudley road opersite the hospital we ofter speak about the old days and refers to certan things but in our paper last wek one of them done an aricle about the green prison and ather prisons
he remain annoyously would print his name and what he stated was afact about the green in the old days of the HMP staffs and today these prisons would not be in a state of disrurtion which is true they took no nonsense from prisoners if they say jump they would be jumping and no hanging around blabbing back they would be very prompty back in there clls no messing in the time of the green there as only been two incidences that was officier woolly and the gun saga then charli tran robber escaped by a prisoner officer help whom was bought for a price he was singled out by the londoners gang because he was from london he lived in those little prison officiers houses that used to be on the front wall of the prison andhis back yard was the prison wall he was sust out by the gang and the police sorted out with connections he had not long moved into those house we new the daughter whom mixed with and my association so we knew the fact emdiately after the escape thats only ben any corrupt there was one incidence this morning at the reditch prison today an local officier wirking there as been charch bring class a drugs int the prisoners he as ben arrested and he was a local living b the prison its the same there gs get rid of hem bring back govermeny HMP offciers best wishes Alan Astonian;;;;
 
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