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William Gilbert father and son

bevj

New Member
Hello to all
I have been trying for a long time to make headway with my Gilbert ancestors. I have William Gilbert b. +/- 1813 in Birmingham and son William b. 1835 in Handsworth, plus Martha b. 1836 also in Handsworth. Father and son are clock makers and William senior is well documented in the trade directories of Birmingham. By 1851 he was a widower and I have never been able to find a marriage for him nor baptisms for William junior and Martha who I presume is his daughter (but may not be, I know presuming anything is dangerous).
I am sure that finding the family in 1841 could throw some light on the brick wall but I have had no luck at all.
In 1851 they are in Bridge Street West, and in 1861 and 1871 in Farm Street, where William ran his business.
I have a couple of possible sightings for Martha but absolutely nothing for the two Williams in 1841. It's as if they didn't exist before 1851.
Any help or ideas would be extremely welcome.
Thank you in advance.

Bev
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi bev so far no luck with the 41 either but we do love a mystery on here and are happy to help our members who hit brick walls..will keep searching..

lyn
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
always assuming that william did marry and marry before young william was born i can only find one possible marr at the min and that was in 1834 in edgbaston..william gilbert to maria warburton

lyn
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Maybe he wasn't originally a clockmaker. There is a William & Maria with son William (of about the right age) in Camden st in 1841, but father is listed as a taylor.
 

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MWS

master brummie
There's a William and Martha Gilbert who both marry at St Bartholomew's, Edgbaston in 1858. I assume these are the children in question, is their father listed as William?

Other thought is Phoebe Lees, she seems to have a long association with the family.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
on the 71 william senior farm st clock maker living with alfred and martha lloyd and their children..a martha gilbert married alfred lloyd 1858 edgbaston sadly all the marriages on that page do not for some reason give fathers name or occupation but one on the witnesses is william gilbert so this could be marthas dad or indeed her brother william who as MWS said married on the same day so a double wedding for brother and sister by the looks of it...young williams occ looks like watch maker but the writing is not good...i can post the certs if needed

see my post 3 for marr also at the same church as a possible marriage for william gilbert senior in 1834

lyn
 
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MWS

master brummie
William Gilbert who marries Maria Warburton appears to be a brass founder. Living in Bham in 1851 with Maria and 6 children.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
William Gilbert who marries Maria Warburton appears to be a brass founder. Living in Bham in 1851 with Maria and 6 children.
right so we can forget that marr for william senior i found then because on the 51 hes at bridge st west widowed occ clock maker

lyn
 
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bevj

New Member
Thank you all for your help so far.
The few family trees I've found online have William marrying Maria Warburton but I am sure it's not right. If he was a master clockmaker he would surely have been in that trade all his working life and not switched from being a tailor!
I have the two certs of Martha and William junior's marriages, thank you. Martha and Alfred Lloyd are my direct ancestors. How odd that the fathers' names are all missing from those records. and those on the facing page.
I've been wondering about the Lee(s) family myself. I even looked to see if William junior and Martha could have been baptized as Lees and then taken the Gilbert name, No luck.

As I mentioned, I'm sure that finding the two Williams on the 41 census would throw light on this puzzle and it's sort of heartening that others can't find them either! Thanks again for your interest.
Bev
 

mhills1345

New Member
I have found William Gilbert (1835), married Mary Chetwood (1833) on 27/12/1858 at St Bartholomews, Edgbaston. William's occupation is given as a clock maker. Mary was born in Moreton Corbet, Shropshire.
I have also found the 1841 Census for a William Gilbert, (1808) his wife Mary (1808), daughters Mary (1831), Ann (1836) and sons William (1834), John (1838) and Josiah (1839).
William seniors occupation is given as a Military Ornament Maker?
They lived in Tower Street, St George, Birmingham.
The 1851 Census shows both William's as clock makers living in Bridge St West, St George, Birmingham. This is the first time that Phoebe Lee (1813) appears with her father, John Lee (1780) a machine fitter.
The 1861 Census shows William Gilbert (1813), senior, as a clock maker master, widower, living at 11 Farm St, B'ham with Phoebe Lees (1811), Housekeeper, with the Lloyd family lodging.
The 1871 Census also shows William senior, Phoebe Lees, and the LLoyd family still living at Farm Street, B'ham.
One other name I found was a John Gilbert and a Phoebe who may have been William seniors parents.
Hope this helps and doesn't send you on a wild goose chase.
Gerry
 

MWS

master brummie
William Gilbert - military ornament maker - is not the William Gilbert living with Phoebe Lees.

Both appear on the 1851 separately.
 
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