• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Whale, Ann Nee Scandrett Tried For Larceny 1825

H

Heather H

New Member
Any help with this 21 yearold born in Birmingham, married to Michael Whale, possibly maiden name Scandrett would be appreciated. Transported for life to New South Wales Australia aboard Grenada. I would be very grateful if anyone has any information, etchings of the time/area. Married at St Pauls, lived Moor St, caught stealing from children in Dale End and Lancaster St. (Birmingham newspaper report of Warwick Assizes)
Thank you
Heather
 
could you give us a bit more info please such as full names and the year/s...i take it you are looking for old photographs of moor st?? if so there are some on the forum... also if the church you mentioned is st pauls in the jewellery quarter it is still standing and in use...

lyn
 
There's a listing for a Mary Ann Scandrett who married a Michael Wale on 19 Dec 1824 at St Peter & St Paul, Aston.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I search on Ancestry it links to some Australian records for an Ann Wale/Whale - all NSW convict registers - including application to marry Patrick Devine and also convict muster as Ann Devine. As I cannot access these I have no way of knowing if it is the same person.
There is a Birmingham burial at St Philips of a child William of Moor Street died aged 15 months born 1825 and buried 12 October 1826. Her trial was Summer 1826 so the child would have been looked after by someone or was he with her??
 
Last edited:
Have discovered she sailed on 1st September 1826 so the child was not with her.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-8-1_13-40-29.png
    upload_2018-8-1_13-40-29.png
    15 KB · Views: 6
very sad and harsh punishment i think jan as was often the case in those days

lyn
 
True Lyn. I was hoping I could find the NSW records to see if she was pardoned but I can't find her at the moment as they aren't all digitised.
 
Wow, thank you all so much for responding, and so quickly.
I am in Australia researching for my husband’s mother ( a Devine who descended from Ann Whale’s second husband Patrick Devine) Also doing a Uni course in Family History, intrigued by poor Ann. Wondering why she would be married, had a child, William 1825-1826 and turned to tricking children out of money. Were things that bad for her in Birmingham? Can’t find what happened to Michael WhAle or Ann’s family. I have an extensive tree on Ancestry (Hocking Family Tree) but so many queries.
Interestingly, once Patrick and Ann married in NSW the hunt goes cold. Patrick had been a convict sentenced for seven years. Once free they applied to marry so Ann was granted a conditional pardon - she was free to marry and make a life in Australia but could not return to England without consequences. Maybe they changed their names. it seems Patrick had already fathered a son (Frederick Ambrose Devine) who came to Australia after his father and hence the Devine branch continued.
 
I am just wondering if she had what today would be "mental health issues" not recognised in those days and often leading to imprisonment or worse. How soon after William's birth was she arrested? Could it have been post natal depression? Or was he already ill and dying leading to her distress? His death cert should reveal what he died of - might indicate how long he was ill for.
 
I have no way of knowing if this is the right person but there is a Michael Wale aged 35 on the 1841 census living in Coventry Street Birmingham and a death registered in 1845 also in Birmingham. The address for the death is also Coventry Street but the age is 45 (I think on the 1841 census ages were rounded so are not exact). Burial at St Philips.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-8-2_9-33-37.png
    upload_2018-8-2_9-33-37.png
    82.1 KB · Views: 5
Thanks again Janice
You may be right about the baby being sickly, maybe the marriage didnt work out and Ann and William were destitute!!?? William was 15 mths when he was buried 11th Dec 1826 so that makes his birth abt Sept 1825.
Ann was tried 22nd July 1926. One of the acusers said shehad child on her hip.
As far as I can tell Ann and Michael were born abt 1805, so the Michael Whale on the 1841 census is probably my man.
Its been great ‘talking’ with you, thank you for taking the time.
 
Astoness said:
very sad and harsh punishment i think jan as was often the case in those days

lyn
Click to expand...
Hi Lyn,
Yes the punishment was harsh but from newspaper reports Ann had committed similar offenses on no less than three occasions. She must have really needed the money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top