O
O.C.
Guest
Was this the first bus in Brum in 1897?, note the chain driven back wheels
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A.Willoughby
master brummie
Not only the chain drive, Cromwell, but is that a brake block I can see on the rear offside wheel? No wing mirrors and I bet that handle the driver has, needs many spins to get the front wheels to turn, if only slightly.
I would guess anyone signalling it to stop to pick them up would need a fair viewing distance to give warning to the driver time to negotiate the manoeuvre .
In my fanciful mind, I would take the small wheel, below the driver's knee, to be a equivalent to the modern automatic door opener at the rear for passengers to board or alight. (expect it is for something more mundane) Noted the coach style rack for luggage on the roof and the cover the driver could pull over in case of inclement weather.
Now they were drivers in those days and without a PSV licence I expect.
Will.
I would guess anyone signalling it to stop to pick them up would need a fair viewing distance to give warning to the driver time to negotiate the manoeuvre .
In my fanciful mind, I would take the small wheel, below the driver's knee, to be a equivalent to the modern automatic door opener at the rear for passengers to board or alight. (expect it is for something more mundane) Noted the coach style rack for luggage on the roof and the cover the driver could pull over in case of inclement weather.
Now they were drivers in those days and without a PSV licence I expect.
Will.
brummie nick
master brummie
Do you think the lamps would be Lucas?
Peter Walker
gone but not forgotten
Crom, that fantastic picture has me spell-bound because it's so good technically, and tongue-tied because I haven't a clue what, where or when it was. Ive never heard of that company name before, and the vehicle is so tiny, it can hardly be called a 'bus'.
It's definitely a subject for further examination.
Peter
It's definitely a subject for further examination.
Peter
O
O.C.
Guest
Hows about this chain driven one Peter on the Hagley Road route, Kings Head and Bear Hotel
Top speed 12 MPH but it could still go up and down Mucklow Hill
Top speed 12 MPH but it could still go up and down Mucklow Hill
O
O.C.
Guest
Up to 1906 anyone could start a private bus company up, and the council leased routes to Horse, Steam and Cable trams companies.
On Dec 31st 1906 with the exception of the Selly Oak and Handsworth Routes
Every lease expired and at 5-30 the next morning ...............the Corporation were running their first electic car, two hours later..... 200 of the new vehicles were on the road, at a stroke all the old steam engines had gone..........
On Dec 31st 1906 with the exception of the Selly Oak and Handsworth Routes
Every lease expired and at 5-30 the next morning ...............the Corporation were running their first electic car, two hours later..... 200 of the new vehicles were on the road, at a stroke all the old steam engines had gone..........
Peter Walker
gone but not forgotten
Cromwell, back to your first pic, I see that the the best two books ever written on Midland Red history, by P Gray, M R Keeley and J A Seale in 1978 - 79, show that same photo with the following caption: '"Britain's first Omnibus" runs the claim in 1897, presumably referring to motorised power. Nothing further is known about the machine'.
Now to your two pics in No 4, the first shows a 14-hp Daimler with chassis by the Milnes Car Co and body by Birch [no connection - they were a London firm], which was one of nine supplied to the Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd in 1904-5 and taken over soon afterwards by the newly formed Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co. Cromwell, back to your first pic, I see that the the best two books ever written on Midland Red history, by P Gray, M R Keeley and J A Seale in 1978 - 79, show that same photo with the following caption: '"Britain's first Omnibus" runs the claim in 1897, presumably referring to motorised power. Nothing further is known about the machine'.
Now to your two pics in No 4, the first shows a 14-hp Daimler with chassis by the Milnes Car Co and body by Birch [no connection - they were a London firm], which was one of nine supplied to the Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd in 1904-5 and taken over soon afterwards by the newly formed Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co. The side view shows slightly different bodywork details and the later livery of the BMMO, with the name of the Company Secretary, J A Lycett, whose name appeared on every tram operated by the Birmingham and Midland Tramways. These pics were taken at the Kyotts Lake Road depot of the then Birmingham Central Tramways Co, taken over by the Corporation in January 1907. For the previous few years, this depot also acted as the main repair and body-building works for all the company trams in Brum, and the handful of buses was also based there as well.
Unfortunately the buses were so unreliable that in 1908 they banished the best six to Deal in Kent, where the engineer Windham Shire tried to keep them running for another four years. Then in 1912 the BMMO put three of the first Tilling-Stevens petrol electric buses into service on the horse bus route to Harborne, after which they never looked back, and Birmingham's last horse bus had gone by 1913 or perhaps 1914.
Peter
Now to your two pics in No 4, the first shows a 14-hp Daimler with chassis by the Milnes Car Co and body by Birch [no connection - they were a London firm], which was one of nine supplied to the Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd in 1904-5 and taken over soon afterwards by the newly formed Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co. Cromwell, back to your first pic, I see that the the best two books ever written on Midland Red history, by P Gray, M R Keeley and J A Seale in 1978 - 79, show that same photo with the following caption: '"Britain's first Omnibus" runs the claim in 1897, presumably referring to motorised power. Nothing further is known about the machine'.
Now to your two pics in No 4, the first shows a 14-hp Daimler with chassis by the Milnes Car Co and body by Birch [no connection - they were a London firm], which was one of nine supplied to the Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd in 1904-5 and taken over soon afterwards by the newly formed Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co. The side view shows slightly different bodywork details and the later livery of the BMMO, with the name of the Company Secretary, J A Lycett, whose name appeared on every tram operated by the Birmingham and Midland Tramways. These pics were taken at the Kyotts Lake Road depot of the then Birmingham Central Tramways Co, taken over by the Corporation in January 1907. For the previous few years, this depot also acted as the main repair and body-building works for all the company trams in Brum, and the handful of buses was also based there as well.
Unfortunately the buses were so unreliable that in 1908 they banished the best six to Deal in Kent, where the engineer Windham Shire tried to keep them running for another four years. Then in 1912 the BMMO put three of the first Tilling-Stevens petrol electric buses into service on the horse bus route to Harborne, after which they never looked back, and Birmingham's last horse bus had gone by 1913 or perhaps 1914.
Peter
O
O.C.
Guest
You are bang on Peter, I have the Brum City Official handbook showing all the routes from 1907 -1928 intresting reading, you certainly know your buse's
Lloyd
master brummie
Midland Red's chief engineer, the grandly named Loftus George Wyndham Shire was the man who developed the company's vehicle design and building capability from rebuilding ex-army lorries into double deck buses into one of the world's leading bus technology developers. The 'brand name' for Midland Red built buses was "S.O.S." which many think stood for "Shire's Own Specification", but was also believed to refer to his early design patents which used the phrase "Superior Omnibus Specification". (Incidentally, this 'superior' improvement was to have the entrance alongside the driver so that he could watch passengers boarding and alighting, and a gangway to the rear where another door was provided for emergency exit in case of accident or fire - which is the usual arrangement the world over now.)
Here is probably his swansong - the REC design, the letters standing for Rear Engined Chassis. This may look a modern design but when seen here new in 1936 it was the first rear-engined bus in Great Britain. Three more REC were built, some as coaches, but after Shire's retirement the next Engineer Donald McIntyre Sinclair had all four rebuilt as underfloor engined buses, the prototypes of the post-war production. They lasted until the mid 50s.
LGW Shire is standing by the front wheel and his assistant L.G. Reid is to his right.
Here is probably his swansong - the REC design, the letters standing for Rear Engined Chassis. This may look a modern design but when seen here new in 1936 it was the first rear-engined bus in Great Britain. Three more REC were built, some as coaches, but after Shire's retirement the next Engineer Donald McIntyre Sinclair had all four rebuilt as underfloor engined buses, the prototypes of the post-war production. They lasted until the mid 50s.
LGW Shire is standing by the front wheel and his assistant L.G. Reid is to his right.
