• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Warstone Lane Cemetery

Colour_map~0.jpg
Hello - I have just rediscovered a request I should have made some while back - It is believed that Sylvanus Gill is buried in Warstone Lane Cemetery. I recall looking some 12 years back but finding nothing. Can anyone help?

Done a bit of searching and have found the reference I was looking for -

WL
1915 GILL Silvanus M M 66

Can someone advise who I find this section please?

Thanks




Bernie

Hi Bernie - here is map of Kh?WL Sections - WL M Section is the sloping part to the left of the Catacombs as you look downhill before the path that parrrallels the Mint. Part is alongside the path into the Catacomb circle
 
There are 5 in M 66 in WL
GILL
Silvanus M 1915 M 66 80573 5
Harry 1891 M 66 42714 5

COWBURN
Elizabeth 1901 M 66 57360 5 MI
Emily G 1872 M 66 15213 5 MI
John 1878 M 66 24574 5 MI
Surname COWBOURNE also noted

Looks like headstone was 'buried' in the 1960's. An emailed copy of ther transcription is available from [email protected] Cost is usually £4
email them and they will confirm details, etc

Brian
 
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

9

11
12
13
14
15
16

17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24

25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32

33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40

41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48

49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56

57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64

65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72

73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80

81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88

89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96

97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104

105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140

141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151

152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339

Layout of section M as viewed from path on right of map - cut out shape is Catacomb circle

Brian
 
Many thanks to the excellent replies. I have now ordered transcriptions but oddly the Gills are not named on the 'Monument Inscription' according to BSMGH. My Australian Cousin will not be well pleased.
 
I spent an interesting hour working through section M - and I've come to the conclusion that there are some very strange numbering going on. Whichever way I oriented the plan, I couldn't get it to work - though I did discover a couple of interesting things.
- 13 is in the group of graves below the catacomb wall;
- we have a grave number M 151½ !!
strange_grave number.jpg


I will try to draw up the ones that I did identify and see if anyone else can map them onto the plan - I can't! I've come to the conclusion that digging graves in the correct place wasn't necessarily deemed important!
 
Quite Right Les,

Several sections have graves with a few extra inches between them until you get to the end of the section when there insufficient space - so the grave is than stuck on the next row - but retains the original number! This is very prominent in Section C.
M 151 1/2 is Jane (1890), James W (1900), Mary Ann (1902), Frederick J (1927), Emma (1951) Orchard. Doris E (1905) is shown as M 151 - No half measures for her!
Warstone Lane - M 151 1/2
In loving memory of Jane ORCHARD who departed this life December 23rd 1890 aged 80 years. "She was loved most by those who knew her best." Also of James W. ORCHARD son of the above who entered into rest April 12th 1900 aged 65 years. "A loving husband, an affectionate father and a faithful friend." And of Mary Ann wife of the above who departed this life March 18th 1902 aged 52 years. "Rest, rest in peace thy pain is o'er." Also Doris Emmeline dearly beloved daughter of Frederick J. & Emma ORCHARD who fell asleep May 31st 1905 aged 4 years & 9 months. "Jesus called a little child." Also of Frederick James beloved husband of Emma ORCHARD & father of Doris who died July 6th 1927 aged 53 years. "Rest in peace." Also our dear mother Emma beloved wife of the above who fell asleep March 9th 1951 aged 76 years.
 
What a strange grave number and if it is on the paperwork it can't be a stonemasons error - are there any more halves in the cemetery?
 
I found it intriguing that 151½ is part way along a row! You could almost understand it if it was at the end of a row, but it's two in from the path. It's not marked on the plan in that way; in fact, it's seemingly impossible to find any correlation between the grave numbers and the grave plan. I'm normally reasonably good at working them out, but after about 30 mins, I started feeling seasick!
I did note down the names on some of the graves without numbers, so maybe I can get some more numbers from Brian and then later in the spring I'll have another go at trying to make sense of section M
 
Last edited:
There atre plenty of graves with 'A' suffixes as you stroll down alongside Pitsford St - shoehorned in extra graves when the money was running out and they found some little spaces - possibly part of the original pathway that ran down there.
There used to be a curving pathway through M - difficult to see now with so many headstones 'buried' - 151 1/2 may be on the route of the pathway.
 
WL_M_65_Elizabeth_Banner.JPG WL M 65 Elizabeth Banner

WL_M_67_Luckett~0.JPGWL M 67 Luckett grave

These 2 surviving headstones are adjacent to to the 'new' path that was uncovered which runs through M section around the outside of the catacombs. M 66 must be between them. The headstones run from top to bottom of the cemetery.
The low numbers M1-M15 etc are the other side of the wall on the lower level beside the path in to the Catacombs

Very confusing section is M - only awkward peoples relative appear to be buried here!
 
Brian that is fantastic many thanks. Well as my Gt Grandfather who is buried there never got around to marrying his second 'Wife' (we cannot establish any marriage though she took his name) you could be right about awkward people. His 'Wife' appears to be buried at New Oscott by the way - perhaps she did not want to be close to him or my Grandfather may have wanted her close to him in Erdington as he lived in the cottages in Court Lane.

PS - I am sure you meant to say 'Only peoples awkward relatives appear to be buried here'?
 
Bernie - between you & leslam? Not sure if it's the relatives or not - Have a book on it at the next meet!!!!!!!!
At least you can find the space easy enough if you visit now!

Brian
 
I wondered if someone could be so kind as to check the burial of Ann(ie) Freeman in Warstone Cemetery 1862. I'm trying to locate Ann Freeman born 1810 died between 1861 and 1869 in Aston. Her husband Henry died in 1869 and I think he is buried in Witton Cemetery. There is a Ann Eliza Freeman buried in Key Hill Cemetery also in 1862. I'm sure one of these two is my Ann aged about 52. Any help much appreicated. Helen
 
If there is not a memorial headstone/inscription you can get the details from BMSGH - it costs £4.00 per grave - they will send you any details that are in the burial register which can include date of burial, age, address at time of death, informant/person who purchased the grave - although sometimes not all these details have been put in the register.

https://www.bmsgh-shop.org.uk/index...&keyword=m+cem&category_id=47&product_id=3042

I have used this service and they usually reply very quickly.
Do you have the grave numbers?
 
I agree with Pollypops - they were indeed very quick with the details and the inscription that I requested.
 
My great great grandad John C Hooper (policeman) is buried in warstone lane cemetary.

If anyone is visiting would they mind taking a photo of the area he is buried in please, thats if it is possible to do so Thanks

He is buried in a public grave section p grave no 1582

Thank you
Mandy x
 
Looking_down_rows_of_public_graves_from_P1736.JPGWarstone Lane Cemetery - Unmarked Public Graves at rear of the former Mint. Pic taken at P 1736 looking down hill. P 1582 is 5 graves ahead. there is another row of unmarked public graves alongside the wall - P1582 & 1736 are nex row in. These trees are self seeded following the reopening & 'topping up' of these graves in the 1950's after the Council took over ownership of the cemetery. The 2 dead trees on the left have since been cut down, the dead tree's on the ground have been burnt, along with all the branch litter on the ground. This is the nearest pic I have at present, but will try and pop in over the next week. The graves was initially opened in 1898, ans was reopened and topped up in 1915 when John C Hooper was interred.

Brian
 
Hi, ive just read the whole of this interesting thread and have enjoyed lookin at the past and present photos of the cemetery. My great great nan is buried here catacomb 6 in1954. is there a specific reason as to why? Or is it just classed as a normal grave. Its a shame they have to be sealed up because of them being used by the homeless and druggies:( disrespectful and saddens me.
Silly question but would she of been laid to rest like a normal grave and not stood up :p
 
think this info was put together by key hill brian...

for those interested in the different types of buriels at key hill and warstone lane cemeteries here is a great bit of info and should help clear up any myths and maybes about how folk were buried...

'PAUPER'S GRAVE'
A pauper was a penniless person buried by the Board of Guardians (at public expense). There are none at Key Hill or Warstone Lane, but there are several at Handsworth Cemetery. They would not usually be put into Public Graves.

PUBLIC GRAVE
Sometimes referred to as Common Graves (which were actually smaller versions). The cheapest grave available in a private cemetery such as Key Hill. The grave (at key Hill) could be as deep as 40’ and covered the area of either 2 or 4 ‘normal’ plots. The standard ‘4 Plot’ Public grave contains between 100 & 230 people, the average being closer to 200. The Grave was temporarily covered with boards or tarpaulins or occasionally a ‘tent like’ structure between burials. Each individual coffin being covered by soil after burial, although concrete was trialled at Key Hill. The grave was usually only open for 3-4 months before being completely full. A separate charge (10 Shillings) was made to engrave the name on the large headstone. Only a minority of people could afford to do this, so there are many more interred than the headstone indicates. In 1894 separate internments were £1 each. These may have been known as ‘Guinea Graves’ when the cost was increased.
COMMON GRAVE
This is a Public Grave but is only one plot in size, and would normally be for 3 people (usually unrelated). The Grave would usually be filled in between burials, and no Headstone would be allowed. However, at Key Hill, because of the sandy ground, these Graves can contain 20 people. They were called Common Graves due to being in ‘Common Occupation’.
A Common Grave (for 3) people cost in 1843 £0 7s 6d per Internment. By 1851Separate Entombments in Catacombs and Graves were advertised at Adults £1 5s 0d, Children £0 15s 0d.

INSCRIPTION GRAVE
Another term for Public Graves, or most likely, an alternate term for Family Graves.

PRIVATE GRAVE
Also called Family Graves. The ‘normal sort of Grave in the Cemetery. They can be double plots or even larger. The Standard 3 person plot cost £2 18s 0d in 1843. They could be deeper than the standard 7’ (a 20’ deep grave cost £5 14s 0d). Larger graves obviously cost more. They could be Brick lined (20’ feet deep cost £14 18s 0d!) with a flat cover stone on top, or vaulted with a brick arched roof with an opening for coffins, covered again by a flat stone. These graves would usually have Headstones, Side Rails, & footers. They could have a monument over them (Obelisk, Cross, Statue, etc). A 7’ x 3’ Gravestone cost between £1 16s 0d and £2 5s 0d. This had risen to a flat cost of £3 10s 0d by 1897.



CATACOMBS VAULTS
The Catacombs are basically private storage rooms, with 4 shelves for individual coffins. The ‘room’ was then bricked up, often with a wall mounted headstone. Private Catacombs originally cost from £25 - £60. Further internments £1 10s, and a stone £2 10s.
In 1882 new Catacombs were created, whereby each coffin was enclosed by a single brick wall, and covered with stone flagging securely cemented to make it airtight. A stout door to be supplied and name, date of death and age of deceased (when ordered) to be in a uniform style. Charges were Children under 4 25s, Children 5-12 £2, Adults £3. Inscriptions 10s
Once the catacomb was completely filled, it would be closed in with a brick wall and the stone door permanently fixed in place. In 1889 prices were amended to 15s, £1, £2 and £4.

VAULTS
There are vaults inside the Catacombs as well as beyond them on the curved section. Single internments in vaults were reduced in 1889 from 15s to 12s and 10s
 
WL_View_into_catacombs__1953.jpg1953 view into the Warstone lane catacomb 'circle' The church is still standing, and the large gated doorway centre top is the main entrance into the internal catacombs Further in was a crematorium style lift for coffins that was situated in the church - Lift machinery is still in place, although very rusted! Due to a poor 'take up' of family catacombs, they were eventually used for for the cheaper funerals to avoid wasting them and to save money!
Many of the internal corridors catacombs were used for those transferred from other places such as Christ Church, Victoria Square - hence John baskerville the Printer is in there, They were alos used for all those whose bodies had been donated for Medical Science and had been used by Students at Birmingham University Medical school. Such bodies were only 'loaned' to the Students from start of term in September until the following Easter Exams. They than had have a normal Christian Burial, with no missing pieces.
All bodies in the catacombs are in coffins, normally lead/tin lined, and are on the laid down normally as in a grave. All have a short christian burial service in the Church by the officiated by the Vicar.

No interior layout plan has yet been found to our knowledge. The last Registrar and one of the last Gravediggers who have been in there decades ago were also unable to give a definite plan.

Emily Jane Steele 1954, is lying somewhere inside that gated doorway with a lot of good company.
 
Hi brian;
hope you had a nice birhday and that it was a memorable one ;
on the subject of the tombs how long as this pratice of donateing been going on;
afew years back in time and up to the fifties when we was kids and even on my own i spent alot of time down there
and way back then in the fiftys these catts was already broken into andthere was nothink there to see ;
so would that be the case far back in the fifties of these empty catts ;
i would really be intrested to find out more if you could respond please i have always found out intrest in key hill for a number of factors that intrest me ;many thanks astonian;;
 
There are burials in Warstone Lane marked 'Birmingham University'. Many are just listed as 'Contract Burials' These are those bodies used by Medical school students -they share 1 between 2 Sept-April. Many people donate their bodies to assist medical research - helps research as opposed to donating actual organs for transplant - a more recent innovation that is becoming common.
Also many people who died in the old 'back' wards who had no known living relatives, nor monies to fund a funeral, were donated to the Medical Schools, who than arrange a basic Christian burial within a year of death.
It was confusing to see in the Burial Register burials of up to 25 people, once a year all showing a date of death from 9-11 months previously!
Naturally such burials are the basic cheapest service available.
Of interest WL burials in this respect appear to date back to 1927, presumably before that they were in Council cemeteries such as Witton?
They continue through WW2 - obviously medical training was continuing even than.
The worst thing is - until 1942 they are just listed as unnamed people, They only seem to acquire names and individual identities post WW2

Not quite as bad a Burke and Hare body snatching - but being #loaned' out on condition they pay for your burial later isn't that much of a great bargain - Just saved the state the cost of the basic funeral, and at least you serve a greater use to society (hopefully) helping to educate your children's G.P.'s to be!

I understand from ex gravediggers, now retired, that several of the internal corridors were filled floor to ceiling with coffins in the '50's working from back to front, than sealed up - almost like filling a shipping container. No one ever expected them to be reopened or that anyone would be interested in who was where. Family Tree's were for those in Burke's Peerage, etc in those days - not for the common man!

Shame none of them ever took any pics that we are aware of. I understand the Friends Treasurer/Secretary has been given one but refuses to display it unless he has permission from the taker of the pic - in which case why were they given it?
 
Hi Brian,
Most of the relatives I have buried in Warstone are in Public Graves, and I'm just grateful they are in such a beautiful place. I was wondering though, were relatives allowed to witness the burials as they are so deep? I suppose they would have to stand a distance for safety! Were there edging stones around the publics so that the relatives could tell which plot? Also, are the vaults above the Catacombs brick lined, and how deep? I hope you don't mind so many questions, I haven't had chance to catch you in the Cemeteries for ages!!
Keep up the good work! Hope you had a Happy Birthday.
rosie.
 
Brian - I gave Richard photos of the catacombs at Warstone, before they were bricked up and that was in the 1970's. Same as Key Hill, they were bricked up to stop druggies and drunks from spending the night there. There were no coffins in there then, at least in the corridors, they would have been in individual cells. I can only think that they may have been there temporarily, because the corridors were left open until the 1970's. David Fairhurst would confirm that to you, Warstone was under his jurisdiction for ten years, as was Key Hill. David took the photos I passed to Richard.
 
Hi Rosie,

Just popped out and visited KH/WL as forecast is for wet stuff again! Cold and damp today. Stonemasons are back in KH tidying up little bits of the cemetery Wall where the frost had got into their pointing. I noticed a few more trees have gone - Hooray! and some leaves but still some areas needing attention - behind the petrol stn for example.

I spoke with a gent a year or 2 ago who was in his 80's and had been at the funeral of a relative in KH where the Publics are known to be 40ft deep. The hole was brick lined and as he was only about 8 at the time seemed very very DEEP! Presumably people were not allowed to get too close to the grave in case of accidents, but the burials were paid for so were 'proper' burials with a Chapel/Church service KH/WL - it was just a cheaper shared grave rather than one all to yourself. Nowadays they would probably try and tax the spare grave space until it was filled!
The Key Hill Publics still mostly have the brick edging visible, although some are overgrown with grass/moss. It WL about halfway along behind the Mint you can see the brick outlines - either side they start to get covered over with soil/decades of composted leaf mould etc. A nice little project is to start in the middle and scrape the surface to expose the brick edging, working your way up/down hill as desired - most should become apparant than. It is possible that the upper layers of bricks have collapsed and fallen in when the Council were reusing the graves in the 1950's but measurement of those with Brick edging showing should allow the rest to be 'guesstimated'. The amount of Daffs growing behind the Mint is encouraging. With many trees cut down, and most of the fallen trunks and branches now burnt, there should be enough light to encourage further planting to take OK. Most side branches have also been lopped off at head height now allowing sunlight to penetrate - if we ever get some sun!

As far as we know, the catacomb Vaults K & J are as deep as the walls they are next to, and are also brick lined. When you think some of these Vaults & Publics have several hundred adults - those with babies have many hundreds, makes you realise they must be deep!
 
Cheers Shortie,
David is in contact with me occasionally, but recalls little these days - lot of water under the Bridge, new career, etc
Barry the former Handsworth Supervisor confirmed some of the internal corridors were filled up with coffins and than sealed.
Neither could recall the layout of the internal corridor catacombs - The Register suggest about a dozen, and containing many hundreds of coffins, might try and count them one day!
It was the pics you gave him that have never yet seen light of day - refused to display them at Open Day or History Fair - Concderned things don't go the way they did with the late Dick Empson - purloined for opersonal use rather than shared for public knowledge.
 
WL_P_1582_-_Site_of.JPGWL site of P 1582 marked by folder - 2nd row in from wall. 5 years ago this area was an inpenetrable jungle of trees, brambles, etc. Still requires tidying but a BIG improvement!
 
Hi again Brian! I hope those walls are not going to give-way on the other side! We have relatives in J, more Pressdees.
Gt.Gt.Grandfather is in O 741 next to the Floyd family's Renee, are we allowed to poke about to see if we can see an edge?!
The residents of the Mint flat must have a good view over The Cemetery, it's looking lovely now.
rosie.
 
Back
Top