War Memorials

[Davidsteam]

Is there a register of Great war memorials, around the Sparkhill district, or even better a transcription of their content?

 

[sospiri]

Hi David,

The Imperial War Museum has a Register here:-
https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/search?query=Sparkhill,+Birmingham&items_per_page=10
Don't know about transcriptions though.

Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

Thanks Maurice.
Two had transcriptions which unfortunately did'nt help.
I am facing an uphill struggle to find out about Albert Edward Smith. Died 26/9/1918 at 198 Formans Road Sparkhill Birmingham.
Albert was only 17 when he died, gassed in the Great war. His death certificate states, cause of death Pulmonary Tuberculosis. (No mention of military service).
He was obviously underage, so he may have used an alias or altered his birth year, so wartime records will be unreliable, therefore post war records are most likely to be accurate.
He is buried in a private grave in Brandwood End, the CWG have no record of him. I have no regiment or service number. His two elder brothers were in the Royal Artillery, so he may have followed them. He may even have been in some form of reserve as he was under age.

David

 

[sospiri]

David,

I've checked all the Albert Edward SMITHs and A.E.SMITHs service records from World War 1 without success, but bear in mind that 60% of the records from WW1 were destroyed in a fire during WW2. I've also checked the Absent Voters List for 198 Formans Road and the only name appearing is Stanley SMITH 16007 Pte A.P.C., but there is some doubt about him being on that if he was under age. Can't find them or 198 Formans Road on a quick search of the 1911 Census - the numbers don't seem to go up that far, but it was a quick search! Maybe you have already found them on that census.

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

I couldn't find 198 on the 1911 census - did find an Albert Edward in Princip Street but no idea if he is the right one. In 1922 Henry smith is listed at 198 - a relative?

 

[sospiri]

Janice,

Ditto! Henry SMITH is on the Electoral Rolls at 198 FR until 1930. From 1935 it is the THOMAS family. No idea when or where Stanley or any of the family were born, so that is making it difficult.

Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

David,

I've checked all the Albert Edward SMITHs and A.E.SMITHs service records from World War 1 without success, but bear in mind that 60% of the records from WW1 were destroyed in a fire during WW2. I've also checked the Absent Voters List for 198 Formans Road and the only name appearing is Stanley SMITH 16007 Pte A.P.C., but there is some doubt about him being on that if he was under age. Can't find them or 198 Formans Road on a quick search of the 1911 Census - the numbers don't seem to go up that far, but it was a quick search! Maybe you have already found them on that census.

Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

Hi Maurice This is very interesting. Stanley Smith is the middle brother, Albert was the youngest, Harold, my Grandfather being the eldest. They had a sister Mary Ann Smith (daughter of a Mary Ann).

In the 1911 census, the family lived at 48 Cattell Road Aston. The head of the family was James E Slater, he married Mary Ann Smith (nee Turley) in 1906, she, died in 1916, so this may have prompted another change of address, but at this time the Smith children would have been 24, 21, 18, 14, so quite possibly would have been living away.
The two eldest boys may have been in the army, which would account for Stanley being an 'Absent voter'.

I have no relative Henry Smith. The address and name being an uncanny coincidence. By coincidence I am aware of a Harold and Albert E Smith of 731 Coventry Road at around this time, but a 1911 census check shows they we not related. (That Albert would have been 13 in 1914 when there is an attestation for him)

Regards
David

 

[Davidsteam]

I should add that Both Harold and Stanley left local government service sometime in the mid 1920s to carry out similar duties in the West Riding of Yorkshire, before heading to SE London in 1936.

 

[sospiri]

David,

It seems that Harold used both Harry & Henry on his documents. Here are the images for 198 Formans Road Elector Rolls for 1920 and 1922. No sign of James E. SLATER.

Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

Maurice
This is interesting, as again Harry & Henry, do not mean anything to me, but Emma Turley, does figure in the picture. I will need to double check my filing system to see where this is going.
I really would like to find out about Albert and his army service.

David

 

[sospiri]

David,

Since you gave me the additional information I have double-checked the service records on FindMyPast and there is nothing that connects with any of the addresses that we know or Birmingham in general. Checking Medal Rolls on Ancestry is pointless without either the service number or at least the regiment and the information that they give us is negligible anyway. Remember that 60% of other ranks records were destroyed in a fire during WW2. That doesn't leave many, if any, records that we can check since he wasn't old enough to appear on the Absent Voters List of 1918. School records, if they have survived, will be in Birmingham Archives at the Library of Birmingham, but I live in Crete, so this would be something someone else would have to search for, not that they would help with his military service. I've also checked the British Library Newspaper Archives and drawn a blank.

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

Maurice
This is interesting, as again Harry & Henry, do not mean anything to me, but Emma Turley, does figure in the picture. I will need to double check my filing system to see where this is going.
I really would like to find out about Albert and his army service.

David

Interesting that Stanley was born in the USA - 1901 and 1911 census.

 

[sospiri]

I didn't bother to really track the siblings, Janice, as David was predominantly interested in the military side of things.

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

Neither do I really but I was looking at any other brothers and what their names were when I spotted that - it means the family must have gone to the USA at some point.

 

[Davidsteam]

Indeed Stanley was born in Connecticut USA 1897, didnot have a UK passport until the late 1940s. I wonder if the 'a' I have seen in some records refers to alien or american?
The Smith family left the UK in 1896, but returned sometime around 1901 for reasons unknown, the most likely being ill health of the father, Francis, who passed away in 1903. His widow remarried in 1906, She in turn died in 1916, when seems to coincide with events possibly leading to Albert Joining the army.

 

[Davidsteam]

Research in the last few days have come up with some information about Albert.
As he was gassed and his death certificate makes no reference to war service, so he may well have held a Silver war badge, so a check of Albert Smith, discharge date and age came up with

First name(s) Albert
Last name Smith
Service number 22557
Rank Private
Badge number 124062
Enlistment date 07-Nov-1916
Discharge date 17-Aug-1917
Regiment/unit Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Cause of discharge Sickness Par: 392 (xvi) King's Regulation
Whether served overseas Yes
Badge date of issue 25-Jul-1917
Record set Silver War Badge Roll 1914-1920
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain

These seem to fit with the known facts, but further research is needed.

David

 

[pjmburns]

There is a war medal entry for that number (22557)

 

[sospiri]

Interesting, but doesn't help the Albert mystery. Albert presumably had a short period of employment before he joined the Army. Any idea where? No photographs of Albert in uniform, I suppose? And no monument at Brandwood End, I suppose? All obvious questions to which I expect and answer in the negative, but we're clutching at straws now.
EDIT: You gave that information whilst I was writing this! Anything to tie that information to your Albert, such as address or parent?
Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

Trying to tie this information to parents or address is going to be the difficult part. No uniform photos, only the private grave at Brandwood End, with the same dates as his death certificate. His older brothers were in the Royal Artillery, so I would have expected him to follow them. The 'Silver badge' path was just guess work and turned up several Albert Smiths, another likely contender was service number 64912, badge number 222676, but my brother felt he was less likely to be 'our Albert'.
I hope a Royal Warkshire expert might know where to get such information, otherwise I will make an appointment at the IWM in London and see what they can find.

I am really grateful for all the effort and assistance being offered.
David

 

[pjmburns]

The Royal Warwicks website suggests that they do have casualty lists. Try here https://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/pages/pg-24-research/
The Albert Smith 64912 in RGA is listed at an address in Windsor.

 

[Davidsteam]

I wonder if there would be any mention of Albert's funeral in local papers of the time, to verify the above supposition?

 

[sospiri]

David,

I've already checked the British Library Newspaper Archive and that has most of them for that time - zilch!

Maurice

 

[Davidsteam]

Ive emailed the Royal Warwickshire museum, hopefully something may come from it.
I aslo deduce that Albert was born after 31/3/01 as hes not mentioned on the census, and died on 26/9/18 before his 18th birthday, so its time to buy one of two possible birth certificates.

David

 

[sospiri]

Hi David,

Good luck with the Museum. The birth certificate will at least give you his birthday and his father (possibly), but school records in the Library are a bit thin on the ground. I found a few for some of my gnephews in the years before they left for Australia in 1911 - they were Saltley/Bordesley area. These gave parents & address, but nothing that I didn't already know. but otherwise the staff comments made interesting reading.

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

Baptism record for Albert Edward Smith son of Francis and Mary Ann born 6 July 1901 and baptised at Immanuel Church 28 July 1901.

 

[sospiri]

Apart from his exact birth date, that tells you as much as you will get from his birth certificate then!

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

I agree except it does give his "alleged" birth date - some vicars did record both. So no need to buy the birth cert. I also found baptism records for Mary Ann (1891), Harold (1894), Stanley (b 1897 and baptised 1899), Daisy (1899) and Albert.

 

[sospiri]

Sorry, Janice, I missed that! Well done.

Maurice

 

[subotone]

Thanks Maurice.
Two had transcriptions which unfortunately did'nt help.
I am facing an uphill struggle to find out about Albert Edward Smith. Died 26/9/1918 at 198 Formans Road Sparkhill Birmingham.
Albert was only 17 when he died, gassed in the Great war. His death certificate states, cause of death Pulmonary Tuberculosis. (No mention of military service).
He was obviously underage, so he may have used an alias or altered his birth year, so wartime records will be unreliable, therefore post war records are most likely to be accurate.
He is buried in a private grave in Brandwood End, the CWG have no record of him. I have no regiment or service number. His two elder brothers were in the Royal Artillery, so he may have followed them. He may even have been in some form of reserve as he was under age.

David

Hi David
There is an A E Smith on the WW1 war memorial at St Edmunds Church Tysley very close to where Albrt lived in Foremans Road.

Best of luck with your research

Tony