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Villa Cross

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Birmingham & Aston Chronicle | Saturday 12 August 1882
This clip shows a letter which complains about W Graham having paved a portion of the footpath opposite [in front of] his premises with expensive red granite (at the tax payers' expense). On the ENTIRE photo, I suggest, this paving shows up clearly at the Barker Street entrance to his premises. The date of the letter is 1882. As this is one, of a total of five historical complaints made against Mr Graham, it does not necessarily mean that the paving was laid in 1882. But it was there in 1882, and it's on the photo. (I suggest then that the photo can now be dated 1974-1882.) What!? Can't believe I wrote that! I should have said that it suggests the photo can now be dated not later that 1885 (tramway lines) and not before the red granite was laid, which could be as late as 1882, but could be years earlier.

In the photo we can see the pavement on Heathfield Road, where 'the lamp' is, has not yet been paved with stone.


It is noticeable that the road itself looks in a terrible state. I suppose that when the tramway was laid in 1874 the macadam would have been pristine; well, as pristine as macadam could ever be. (How many years it took to deteriorate to the state shown I can't really guess. But it's an observation worth noting). Macadam was repaired often. Filling and rolling. It was big news when the first steam rollers were purchased to roll the macadam hard and smooth.
 
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I may be wrong about this, but I’d always thought that tarmacadam wasn’t widely used until motor cars came along. Major roads in rural and sub urban areas would have been surfaced with gravel or clinker perhaps?
 
Thanks for correcting me there, Enel. Of course, I meant simply, macadam. I'll change it.
Sorry Myrddin, I didn’t intend to correct, but maybe to flush out one of the many experts here who might like to inform us about nineteenth century road construction methods. I’ve always wondered how they managed to keep the tram tracks clear, what with all the horse-drawn traffic churning up the roads. Sorry drifting off topic. My bad.
 
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Birmingham & Aston Chronicle | Saturday 01 April 1882
This shows that Mr W Graham had both shop fronts paved in granite - at the tax payers expense (expensive red granite that contrasted with the other pavement and, as we can see from the ENTIRE photo, added an air of class to the front of his premises). He also held a celebration at which his invited guests had to pay for their dinner. Both shop fronts paved! Does this mean the pavement in front of both entrances? The ENTIRE photo shows one entrance and the difference in paving before it is clearly shown. Politicians, eh!
 
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"However the original tram route through West Bromwich did not pay its way, and the service from Carters Green to Dudley Port ceased in December 1873, and to Hill Top in September 1875, but a new branch, closer to Birmingham, opened on 23 November 1874, off Soho Hill at Villa Road and going through "The Village" to a point in Lozells Road past the Villa Cross pub, where a depot was built. Stables were provided next-door to the "Red Lion" in Soho Road and beside the "New Inns" on Holyhead Road. "
Handsworth - Preserving the History of Handsworth (handsworthhistory.co.uk
To be used in conjunction with the map in order to visualize the tramway shown in the ENTIRE photo
 
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Well this is an interesting letter. In 1863 there was a "fine line of lights" lit down Heathfield Road, while Hunters Lane had lights that were not lit because the residents would not pay the going rate. Hmmm. So lamp posts must have been there at the top of Heathfield Road at Villa Cross in 1863. And if there were lamps in Hunters Lane and Barker Street there would certainly have been lamps at the top of Barker Street and on the Lozells Road at the crossing. How many years had they been there? Would the lamp posts survive to 1885? On our photo the lamp at the top of Heathfield Road was the responsibility of Handsworth Local Board, while the other two prominent lamps, at the corner of Barker Street and on the Lozells Road were the responsibility of Aston Local Board. All three appear identical.
 
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Hi to all following this thread. Much of the searching you all have done has been confirmed by Kieron of www.midlandspubs.co.uk. He emailed me the following:

"In my humble opinion I think around 1890 is not too far off the mark. I think I can see the name of Barker, a grocer at No.231 at this time. I am not sure when Fox & Co. first operated the Villa Cross Inn - they were certainly listed in 1879. They were brewers/wine & spirits merchants. Their interest was eventually acquired by the Holt Brewery Co. which you can see on the later photograph. John Ogden was the licensee in the mid-late 1890s. By the way, Entire is a type of strong ale popular in the 19th century, though some breweries still produced a type of Entire Ale. At the time of your query the gaffer of the Villa Cross was Thomas Hale. The coffee and tea dealer William Graham was also trading on the other corner in the in late 1870s."

All the evidence supplied proves that the first photo posted is the earliest c1890. It was at a time when the Villa Cross Inn was owned by the brewers Fox Co, who were wine and spirits merchants and they were advertising an ale called 'Entire' on the front of the inn. At this time there was no street lamp in front of the Inn. In 1874 the manager was Thomas Hale. The cab stand was there by 1882 (Prof Carl Chinn). Looks like the photo could be some time between 1882-1893.

My attention now must be concentrated on the three street lamps shown at Villa Cross. IF they were there in 1874 then one of them, almost certainly the one on the left at the top of Heathfield road, IS the original Founders Lamp of Aston Villa Football Club.

It occurs to me there may be a line of investigation.

We can search for the year in which gas lamps have been erected at Villa Cross prior to 1874 ( the year of the meeting ) and up to 1894 (when the Inn was a Holt Co property ). If we find a date for the erection of the lamp post in front of the Inn it means we can limit the latest date for the photograph to that year or perhaps one year before. If lamp posts erected before 1874 were not replaced by the dating of the photograph then one of them is the original Founders lamp. (I just don't see four Methodists using the lights of an inn in preference to a street lamp).

Perhaps newspapers reported the erection of street lamps in those days. It might have been a big thing I guess.

Perhaps there are municipal archives that show the details.

If anyone has a different photo of Villa Cross during the Fox Co brewery's time, please post.

Any help very, very gratefully received.
The licensee's in a various Kelly's Directories:
1872 & 1874: Thomas Hale
1876, 1878, 1879, 1880 & 1884: Fox & Co.
1888: Archibald Hunter
1892 & 1896: John Ogden
1903: Holt Brewery
 
The licensee's of the Villa Cross Inn/Tavern in various Kelly's Directories:
1872 & 1874: Thomas Hale
1876, 1878, 1879, 1880 & 1884: Fox & Co.
1888: Archibald Hunter
1892 & 1896: John Ogden
1903: Holt Brewery

The 'Entire' photo on post 24 shows both the pub and Graham's across the road at 260 Lozells Road. Graham's appear at that address in the following Kelly's Directories:

1878, 1879, 1880, 1884, 1888, 1892, and 1896 (Graham's were not at 260 Lozells Road in either the 1876 nor 1903 directories).

Consequently,
Fox & Co. were licensee sometime between 1874 to 1888.
Graham's were at 260 Lozells Road sometime between 1876 to 1903

Therefore photo on post 24 was taken sometime between 1876 and 1888.
 
Richard McNeill. Thanks. That's great. Narrows the earliest limit of the date range to 1876.
Post #65 has a tram advert stating the Lozells line will open 1st October 1885 and trams will run every fifteen minutes. This new line is shown on an 1888 ordinance survey map with double tramways at Villa Cross. On the photo there is only a single tramway. Edward W Bradbury landlord of VCI at the date 30/10/82
Date range narrowed. 1876 to 1885

Should also mention here that in some earlier posts I referred to the cab stand on the right of the inn when I should have said cabman's rest (cabbies rest) which is the 'summer house' style building.

Some long shots worth a mention. In the photo the pavement on the left side of Heathfield Road not paved with wood or stone; when was it paved with wood or stone? The Inn has a clock; when did it disappear?
 
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A lot of roadwork was approved in 1879. Don’t know if this helps. Viv.
 

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Thanks Vivienne14. Every bit of evidence can be a part of the jigsaw.
Although I did pay too much attention to the detailed plans for tramways as given by the tram company. The company may have wished to build them in Barker Street and Heathfield Road but the local boards said, no! I have recently read a newspaper report of an Aston Local Board meeting where they decided not to allow any more tramways, but unfortunately I forgot to save it. A lesson well-learned; save everything.

Today I received a further email from Professor Carl Chinn concerning the cabman's rest shown in the photo. God bless him, he doesn't know me from Adam, but took the time out of his busy schedule to help us. I quote in full:
Hello David,
Sorry for the delay in replying to you but I am working flat out on writing a new book and have a tight deadline to keep so I'm struggling to keep up with anything else.
In your response to your questions, I have a Kelly's Directory for 1882 which is where the information I sent you is from. The previous directory I have is for 1873.
Directories for the intervening years will be in the Library of Birmingham, unfortunately closed at present.
I was referring to the cabbie's rest stand as in 1882, Alfred Harper, cab proprietor was given as at 239 Lozells Road, premises which were named as (Aston Villa) and which was next to the Villa Cross inn.
Best wishes
Carl


This is another lead to follow up. If anyone has intervening years directories, 1874 - 1881, I'd be most grateful if you would kindly try to find out when the cabbie's rest, mentioned above, first appears in them. This may prove to be a vital piece of information that narrows the date range during which the photo must have been taken. Fingers crossed.

Current date range 1876 -1885.
 
Alfred Harper is first listed in the 1879 Post Office directory, not being there in the 1878 edition. It should be noted that the date is the publication date, and was likely to refer to the year before. The Post Office directory was published by a firm owned by Mr Kelly, but was not named Kellys directory till 1880
 
Villa Cross Inn and neighbouring cab proprietor: information from Kelly's Directories for Birmingham: 1874, 1876, 1878, 1879, 1880, 1882 & 1884.

1874 & 1876 Charles Sylvester Young, Commercial Traveller (Aston Villa); next to Villa Cross Inn (no house number) on north side of Lozells road:

1878 No cab proprietor next to Villa Cross Inn and no one listed next to the Villa Cross Inn with '(Aston Villa)' after their name.

1879 Charles Harper, cab proprietor (Aston Villa); next to Villa Cross Inn (no house number) on north side of Lozells road.

1880 & 1882 Alfred Harper, cab proprietor (Aston Villa) at No.239 Lozells Road on the north side of Road next to Villa Cross Inn.

1884 James Alfred Harper, Fly Master* at No.239 Lozells Road on the north side of Road next to Villa Cross Inn.

* Apparently a 'Fly Master' was an alternative form for 'Fly Proprietor:' someone who owned a fleet of 'Fly Carriages'. A 'Fly Carriage' was single horse drawn covered light carriage such as a Hansom Cab. (see: https://www.familyresearcher.co.uk/glossary/Dictionary-of-Old-Occupations-jobs-beginning-F4.html).

Hope this helps.
 
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Richard
Thank you for correction as to which Harper was present in 1879 edition. Have corrected my post
 
Just checking that I’m not losing track of what we’re checking for here. The present day lamp post in these two Streetview images must be the position of the one we’re discussing. It’s directly opposite the Villa Cross Inn on Heathfield Road. In my experience of looking at photos etc, later replacements of old lamp posts tend to be replaced in the same spot. Can anyone confirm this is the position of the AV lamp we’re looking at and also if lamp posts tend to be in the same spot as their predecessors? Thanks. Viv.6DA1E055-57C2-4C55-B275-1842BEBABAC1.jpegD350F3EE-2660-4ACE-9CB3-5624E53A1F3D.jpeg
 
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Firstly, thank you all for contributing. Much appreciated.

Hi, Richard McNeill. That's great again. Very detailed information that covers the time span we're looking at.

The problem with the directory entries, as far as the cabman's rest in concerned, is that it is not explicitly mentioned. From what Professor Chinn wrote I had assumed that it would be. However, as there was no cab proprietor behind the Villa Cross Inn until 1879, it seems unlikely that there would have been a cabman's rest there before 1879. Tentatively, I suggest the new date range is 1879 - 1885. (From later photos of Villa Cross we can see the cabbie's rest was in the same position in 1901 and remained there until it was moved, and propped up on bricks in front of the Villa Cross Hotel. Post #9 )

Hi, Vivienne 14. What I started out to prove or disprove is described in post #24, based on the reasons given in post #52. We are trying to date the photo as accurately as possible, and therefore be able to, eventually, determine whether the lamp shown on the left-hand-side of the photo is exactly the same one that was there on the 21st of November 1874. If it is, then it is, almost certainly, the original Founders Lamp of Aston Villa FC. If the original Founders Lamp had been replaced by the time the photo was taken, then even if the new lamp was in the same position as the original, it would not hold the same significance. The date of the photo, in any case, is very important to me, because the photo is the closest one can get to the 'founding' event, and the more accurately dated the photo is, the closer we are.

Imagine you knew without question that Rembrandt had painted a portrait of a beloved and famous ancestor of yours and that it had been lost. Then one day a beautiful portrait of the ancestor is found. But is it by Rembrandt, or is it a later copy? The original founders lamp is my Rembrandt.


I'll own up to an obsession about the founders lamp. I loved the story when I first read it. Then in 2014 I plucked up courage to suggest to AVFC what I had thought for a long time; that there should be a Founders Lamp at Villa Park to celebrate that meeting of the four young men under a gas light at the top of Heathfield Road at Villa Cross. The owner at that time, Randy Learner, loved the idea and so the Founders Lamp was erected in front of the Holte Suite, at the foot of the Holte End, as part of the club's 140th anniversary celebrations. But I had never dreamed that there existed an actual photograph of the original lamp. Then in December last year I stumbled across the photo. It was dated c1890, and on the left-hand-side at the top of Heathfield Road, at Villa Cross, just as described by Jack Hughes, was ….. a lamp. Instantly, mind blown.

By the way, post #97
The cab proprietors house/carriage works in 1914 clearly shows the same rough footpath as shown in the ENTIRE photo. No proper stone/wood paving on Heathfield Road. So that line of investigation is closed.

I am so grateful to everyone who has contributed. We started with c1890. We're now at 1879 -1885. Wouldn't it be fantastic to know the exact year. Never say never. You never know …
 
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Of course I realise that any replacement lamp wouldn’t have the same significance ! I was simply asking if this is the position because we might be able to dig out any older images showing the original lamp in position on Heathfield Road, ie a better image of the position than any previous images so far discussed. That’s all.

Although the image in post #97 isa later image, the lamp would have been a bit further to the right of the cab proprietors cottage. Maybe there are other images out there that are further to the right that show the lamp.

Viv.
 
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