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Views About Birmingham Bull Ring(s)

leonardjob

leonardjob

Great Russell St
I don't know whether this is the place for a rant, but as a born and bred brummie, who just remembers the bombed out fish market, I feel that our much vaunted Markets are now a disgrace. Visit any other markets in Britain or especially abroad and they are all better. Better display, more courteous staff, much better variety and quality.(I am talking open air market). see any cookery programme and try anf get the ingredients from The BullRing. We grow the best asparagus in the world down the road in worcestershire, but only one stall sells it, any other comes from Peru. Artichokes---no chance. Even Enlish apples in season are hard to find. The stallholders swear, and take the mick out of people. I once had to go to the Market Police about one man's rude racist remarks to an old Pakistani gent who was having difficulty making himself understood. In a french market there will be a choice of 5 grades of oysters, local produce, and they will offer you samples. I was at the Bullring yesterday and came away as usual depressed.
 
I have just been watching an old film taken in the 60s and i was wondering if any body yearns for the old bullring compered to the new bullring,

i know a lot of the old brum was destroyed to build it in the 60s but when you see it in all its glory all new and clean and on a nice sunny day it

makes you wonder where it all went wrong and we ended up with this mish mash of buildings that dont seem to flow and poor old st martins

stuck in the middle standing out like a sore thumb!

phil
 
My Bull Ring...is the one built in the 1960's.....the old one was before my time, the new one is a complete mess in my opinion, but the motto is Forward....and if Birmingham doesn't move forward then it will die,
 
I hated the 'Bull Ring' built in the Sixties not at all sorry to see it go. How wonderful though if the then City Fathers had had the foresight to retain the Old Bull Ring as so many cities on the Continent have done - even to rebuilding replica frontages.
 
The New bullring is just what the Americans call a Mall, no better than any other in any town. Whats more we are getting a new Mall on the pretence that New St Station is being rebuilt.So we can shop while we wait for our trains which will not be any more efficient. Incidentally I walked down Smallbrook Rinway or queensway or whatever the latest branding is, and noticed that all the flower boxes on the buildings were empty. All early pictures and arists impressions showed loads of flowers in flower boxes on the buildings.
Any bets on the next major demolition and redevelopment???
 
Well I am old enough (82 on THursday) to remember the pre 60's bullring and out of the 3 that was my favourite by a long way, it had character (and characters!!) why the City fathers decided to destroy it (more than the Luffwafe could do) I simply do not know. In my humble opinion they have ripped the heart out of the city,its now just another shopping centre or mall as a member as already pointed out. I have not been in the Bulling for at least 10 years, I find it so sad. Eric
 
Eric should it be 'Bull Ring' or Bullring please? I thought it was the former but no longer sure. Wikipedia says this [The Bull Ring is a major commercial area of Birmingham, England. It has been an important feature of Birmingham since the Middle Ages, when its market was first held. Two shopping centres have been built in the area; in the 1960s, and then in 2003; the latter is styled as one word, Bullring.] which suggests that 'The Bull Ring' is the original name for the area and one I prefer. I know we have debated this before but think if we believe the original one was better then we need to keep the correct spelling in spite of what the marketing gurus may determine.
 
bernie ;
if you can recall there was a large topic on the caption of the wording of the pronounceation [ whether or not is it the; bull ring or just the bull ring wordings on how people speak ; when refereing to a friend or familys saying we are off to the bull ring
this was one this forum for ever a day at the time i am sure alot of our older members recall it ; it must have been 2 years ago ;when it was on ;
on the subject of the old bull ring it was better than todays ,and even beter in the forty,s and fifty,s I personaly think ;
and the old hawkers created the asphospere of [ the bull ring ] have a nice day astonian ;;;;;
 
I can just about remember going to the old (roofless) Market Hall with my mother.

The 60's Bull Ring was ok when it was built but it seemed to go down the hill rather quickly and was quite run down by the end of it's life - not particularly a place you wanted to visit and not a very good reflection of Birmingham to visitors.

I am not particularly a fan of modern shopping malls but I do think the new Bull Ring is a great improvement on the 60's version. I love Selfridges and also the way they have cleaned up St Martin's and the area around it.
 
Astonian said:
bernie ;
if you can recall there was a large topic on the caption of the wording of the pronounceation [ whether or not is it the; bull ring or just the bull ring wordings on how people speak ; when refereing to a friend or familys saying we are off to the bull ring
this was one this forum for ever a day at the time i am sure alot of our older members recall it ; it must have been 2 years ago ;when it was on ;
on the subject of the old bull ring it was better than todays ,and even beter in the forty,s and fifty,s I personaly think ;
and the old hawkers created the asphospere of [ the bull ring ] have a nice day astonian ;;;;;
Click to expand...
Hi Alan - Yes I recall that but cannot find it just yet. It was my
understanding that it was the Developers that made the two words into one but maybe not?

Update - Just found the Thread to which Alan (Astonian) was referring. https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30440&page=4
 
Last edited by a moderator:
William Dargue has this to say. But I fear I am now off topic so will go seek out the thread Alan refers to.
 
I was not sorry to see the post 60's version going and I too like the new Bull ring.

It seems we are improving our concrete jungle and the rest of Brum. I welcome the changes, pedestrian areas, and it is generally cleaner too, rather this than the priority given to roads in the previous 40 years. So it is steps in the right direction for what is essentially a shopping area.

Perhaps we could remember our past on roundabouts and monuments - by recreating our older landmarks and history in symbols and pictures displayed in prominent places. Just to show everyone what the new stuff was built on.
 
I preferred the 60's version.(Don't remember the original). In the old Market the meat and fish were almost separated by a wall but now it's all together.
I loved the old Rag Market and the stalls outside. I know things have to change but making everywhere pedestrian is all very well if you can walk the distance!!
 
I don't remember the old Bullring, but much preffered the sixties one to todays with its bland mall appearance and I think whoever allowed the Selfridges monstrosity to overshadow our lovely St Martin needs shooting! The Markets have lost their soul for me, the Indoor Market seems to go further down each time I visit - not that frequently -although I love the prices of the fruit and veg.
As has already been said, what a pity the old style frontages couldn't have been copied to give the area a bit of character, still each to their own and I suppose it is Forward???
Sue
 
I can remember parts of old brum and have seen photos of the old birmingham and whilst i am for change and you cant stay in the past ,what the planners did in the 50s/60s to destroy the city in the name of progress i appreciate there was a lot of old buildings that were beyond repair but the destruction of central birmingham was not on i suppose in those days preservation was not on the agenda and i think in todays climate we might have saved a lot more buildings but who knows (money talks)
also why is there not any consultation in the designs of these new buildings with the public after all we all pay our rates and i for one would like a say in what is put forward in our name i.e selfridges and the new library which look terrible in my opinion not at all in keeping with the rest of the surrounding buildings .

but who am i but a poor resident that has to put up with the constant ridicule from other cities who have maintained their history and heritage

come the revolution brothers ha ha
phil
 
Yes, I agree that more consideration would probably be taken nowadays to preserve old buildings or parts of them where possible. I think buildings with history are generally valued more now, than after the war and in the 50's and 60's.

I appreciate old AND new buildings - I actually love Selfridges, it's unique and very iconic to Birmingham. It's not 'in keeping' with St Martin's but the fact they are such different kinds of architecture makes an interesting view (in my opinion though I can understand that others wouldn't agree!)
 
A Sparks said:
Yes, I agree that more consideration would probably be taken nowadays to preserve old buildings or parts of them where possible. I think buildings with history are generally valued more now, than after the war and in the 50's and 60's.
Click to expand...

I used to think that until recently.

Then Island House (a 100 year old building) near Moor St station was demolished just a couple of months ago.

Apart from a few (closed down) pubs and Curzon St station, this was probably the only "old" building in the area.

Now it has gone

https://www.birminghammail.net/news...ric-island-house-set-to-begin-97319-30371533/
 
I hated the 60s Bull Ring it was surrounded by a ring road and everyone had to underground for it.
The new Bull Ring is 100% better.People don't think of the planning that as gone into it. Like for instance, when you stand at where New street and High street meet, the designers have left a gap in the buildings so St Martins can be seen in all it's glory.
 
There's still a lot of lovely old buildings/architecture around, the problem is that businesses do not want to move into them - they have to be viable I guess.
 
HI phil;
you may laugh indeed at your finishing thread ha ha brothers ; but beleive me my brother its on the cards it will be happening ;
in this city; and country i do not want you to think it political speech because its not ;and many times i haver said its britain is becoming a third world ; yes indeed it is looking at the programe for us being set out which concernes our country and our next generation they aint gonna except it ;
and i truly beleive they will up rise agaist the system for we are all being penalized, but get back to the planners department and the changing ofour city
there as been blunders being done or should i say yes because i know of a site where i was told certain people made mistakes and it was a pity i could not get an airial view to prove my point ;about a certain area that included the dunlop and chain and hhoks building
certain hearatge building been sold off and destroyed still we still have grand building related to our great city ;
unfortutately alot of us lder ones will be not around when it all happens i cannot see what future our grand children have left i ,m afraid ;
best wishes astonian ;;
 
I remember a TV jingle, Oh we do like to shop around the Bull Ring. One of my neighbours went from here on the bus and train every week to buy their meat.
I went once I was disappointed. I sat in St Phillips thought it very atmospheric. It was when they were developing the market area. There was a jazz band. I am told the pooping birds have gone in New street.
 
I have really enjoyed this thread and admit I am in the 'Like' the new one camp [though would love it were it possible to go back to the pre-war version] but can I plead hat we keep the thread about the architecture and surroundings please?
 
I wonder if there is a way to keep the old frontages intact and upgrade the rooves and internals so they are useful then that fixes both worlds. And every new building built should fit in (aestetically) to the current surroundings - sometimes the cheaper box type building look out of place. I do understand that it is a compromise becuase we can't simply price out new enterprises.
 
Whole cities in Poland and Germany were rebuilt exactly as they were before we flatenned 'em. In this city of ours we have allowed the planners to run rampage. We ought to assemble all the planners, politicians and architects who are responsible for the various underpasses, and High rise buildings and ask them to justify themselves, and treat them like the bankers who have messed up our lives.
 
I should think so, I know there have been buildings in London where they have kept the front facade and rebuilt the area behind to make more modern offices.
 
Good morning bernie
yes you are quite corect we should keep it going on the subject of the surrounding there is not much left about the old traditional market
as us oldens recall it . before the sixties concrete and it semms there is alot of members can not recal the old tradition market
i have a large print of the old bull ring hanging on the wall in our lounge but by p j calvert dated 1953
with grand building showing one was a double front building of wolworths and timpsons the shoe repair
and one of the old pub ; and the jamica row fruit and veg and meat and fish hall for the whole salers and all the hand carts going down the front of the church that runs into jamica row and the under ground storage for fruit and veg for the market sellers of the ware and tares
and crowds of people standing arond the statue and listening to the bible bashers and alsorts as it was then called the london version of speakes cornr she can see the old tram lines and the trolley corporation it shows you the atmospheric of the people pushing and shoving scouring for the bargains of the day ; those days the traders all in a line next to each other with there wares ; apples ; and orages and pears and grapes ;
standing by there hand carts begging out to the people hold a fruit out in there hand saying here you are son ; or here you my luv; try before you buy ; ther was always offering free. and the banna king himself and other retailers whom was selling bannanas ; was offering you large boxes of bannas
at very cheap prices some would hold up the biggest pair of hands of bannasa that you could not resist to buy
sadly these building of granduer have been bull dozed down i think the only ones left is digbeth police station and the digbeth hall left of any dezign
apart from the arches of the few srtreet left with the rail way bridges wher they kept the animals for holding over night to go to the hide and skin yard on new cannal street apart from that baskerville house and the llloyed or the tsb. on broad street as been kept for now by hearitage i hope
and i think as i very rarely go into the city that colmore row may be saved ;
i can recall the drovers arms pub amongest the shops in old jamica row my moms ist cousin used to own the oplace banna ovens i beleive it was close to
the drovers arms that was in the thirtys ; and there was an article about her and the family in the mail way back in the thirtys
i will try and get my son to down load a pictur about it
any way sorry for waffling on as you no what i am like just like an old brew house woman as theyused to say ;
best wishes astonian;; alan ;;
 
Thats a great reply and many thanks for it. I did not know the pre 60s. The picture you paint and that character and atmosphere must have been great and badly missed. Whatever the case - the memories are there and shared and thats a start :) - I would not want to give up trying to change what is not right.
 
cookie273uk said:
Well I am old enough (82 on THursday) to remember the pre 60's bullring and out of the 3 that was my favourite by a long way, it had character (and characters!!) why the City fathers decided to destroy it (more than the Luffwafe could do) I simply do not know. In my humble opinion they have ripped the heart out of the city,its now just another shopping centre or mall as a member as already pointed out. I have not been in the Bulling for at least 10 years, I find it so sad. Eric
Click to expand...

Hi Eric.

My other half remembers the pre-sixties Bullring center...you say it had characters as well as character, he asks do you remember the blind carrier bag lady that stood outside the old market hall selling home-made carrier bags?
 
There is a thread about the 'Andy Carrier' Lady somewhere Patsi.
 
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