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Trolley Bus

Bob Davis said:
You have asked an interesting question, is there anyone out there who can say why trolley buses do not figure in any modern transport plans, yet are commonplace around the world. San Francisco & Wellington, NZ

Bob
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I thought we were wandering off thread just a little!
As it was rather wet this morning had a look around google on the viability of "metro trams v trolley buses. It seems that unless you are sending the trams along existing rail tracks then a modern trolley bus wins hands down. They can run 3-5 miles off track using modern batteries charged while on their regular route thus giving a degree of flexibility if a diversion is needed. Article I was reading suggested Zurich has such a system. Makes you wonder why Birmingham has spent the last, is it 5 years laying tracks from Snow Hill to Centennial Square!
Electric buses even with the best design batteries do not have the necessary range, if weather is cold then power is wasted warming the passengers and when hot cooling them. I didn't find any mention of buses that use a self charging system but I suppose this could offer an alternative.
 
I think electric buses are a bit better than they used to be. Reading is testing a modified hydrid diesel/electric bus which is all electric. I understand it cannot do a full days work before recharge ( have heard it is something like 10-12 hours continuous work but am not certain) the hyderids from which it was modified had some breakdown problems after some years service
www.busandcoachbuyer.com

Reading converts and trials electric bus - Bus & Coach Buyer

Reading Buses is trialling an ADL Enviro400 that it has converted to be electric.
www.busandcoachbuyer.com www.busandcoachbuyer.com
 
Considering Birmingham, and we should as this is a Birmingham specific Forum, it should be remembered that pre 1948 the electricity supplied to the city's trams and trolleybuses was provided by the city's own manufactury and was probably at reasonable cost. Once nationalisation took place it had to be purchased from the new nationalised industry and was probably more expensive as it was no longer 'in house'. In 1949 the decision to abandon all electric traction in the city was made. Given that the city centre and some older suburban streets were narrow, at the time, this had also caused trams to loose favour due to their obstructiveness, to pedestrians and other road users. It had been planned to cease all tram operation in the city by 1944, but WW2 altered things somewhat delaying the final abandonment until 1953.
Trolley buses were initially seen, in the early 1930's by the transport department, as a good choice for tram replacement,* but they were not as flexible as the go almost anywhere diesel bus which at that time was gathering big support, besides as there were only just over 70 trolleybuses, among a diesel fleet of over 1500, they were something of an anachronism. Neighbouring cities such as Walsall and Wolverhampton kept trolleys for a few more years, the setting up of the PTE was the end for Walsall. The Lode Lane extension was authorised during WW2 as it was seen a more beneficial to operate electricity which was coal produced rather than use petrol or diesel buses when those fuels were in short supply and had to be brought in by sea.
* When the Dudley Road and Hockley tram routes were abandoned West Bromwich had hoped to use trolley buses as a replacement. This, they believed was better for them as their other neighbour, Walsall, also had them. However, Birmingham had other ideas and diesel buses took over.
 
Although I spent little time in West Bromwich and even less in Walsall or Wolverhampton it does cross my mind why those three municipalities favoured trolley buses far more than Birmingham. Birmingham did flirt with trolleybuses, but relatively speaking, that romance was short lived. It begs the question: were those three towns more enlightened than Birmingham with regard to public transport? or were there other reasons?
As nice as the new trams appear it is my personal view that it is a retrograde step which has made parts of the city become desolate at many times of the day. Trolley buses would have been a far better bet and much less disruptive to the city as appears from the tramway system. Given the battery operation of trams for part of their journey does suggest a revision of the original plans. You now have battery operated electric vehicles confined to tracks - quite inflexible. Travel to Wolverhampton could still have used rail but with conventional style trains of which some of the latest versions are non diesel types.
Monolithic operations often generate monolithic viewpoints.
 
Birmingham trolleybus system in use for 29 years, (hardly flirting with 90 vehicles in use!) was basically a large scale experiment, albeit with some advanced vehicles including traction batteries on the last 24 four-wheelers. West Bromwich preferred the concept of trolleybuses for use on the Dudley and Wednesbury routes but were politically 'outgunned' by BCT despite them raising the height of Oak Lane Garage entrance doors in order to accommodate trolleybus overhead. Walsall was a small system which with the exception of the joint service with Wolverhampton when it was expanded enormously when RECox arrived and expanded the fleet with an eclectic mix of second hand and two new batches of trolleybuses, (a fleet total still less than Birmingham!) Wolverhampton had recently renewed the infrastructure when they replaced the Lorain stud system with new overhead and it made economic sense to use this equipment. They also had Guy Motors manufacturing their new trolleybuses 'on tap' and subsequently then supporting Sunbeam. Therefore your initial comments don't seem to match the actual history.
 
David, I based my comments upon the very large fleet of petrol and subsequent diesel engined buses which the city has owned and the very small number of routes on which trolleybuses operated. I accept that almost thirty years was the trolley bus period however the city still has diesel buses on their streets, almost seventy years since the last trolleybus ran.
Yes, there were many 'firsts' in the city by the BCT and Midland Red. A conjecture might be that if the city had chosen, or been encouraged, to pursue trolleybus use then maybe the body and component manufacturing companies could have seen a great opportunity. We will never know I guess.
 
David Harvey said:
Birmingham trolleybus system in use for 29 years, (hardly flirting with 90 vehicles in use!) was basically a large scale experiment, albeit with some advanced vehicles including traction batteries on the last 24 four-wheelers. West Bromwich preferred the concept of trolleybuses for use on the Dudley and Wednesbury routes but were politically 'outgunned' by BCT despite them raising the height of Oak Lane Garage entrance doors in order to accommodate trolleybus overhead. Walsall was a small system which with the exception of the joint service with Wolverhampton when it was expanded enormously when RECox arrived and expanded the fleet with an eclectic mix of second hand and two new batches of trolleybuses, (a fleet total still less than Birmingham!) Wolverhampton had recently renewed the infrastructure when they replaced the Lorain stud system with new overhead and it made economic sense to use this equipment. They also had Guy Motors manufacturing their new trolleybuses 'on tap' and subsequently then supporting Sunbeam. Therefore your initial comments don't seem to match the actual history.
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thanks david...i have read your books....very interesting

lyn
 
Are trolleybuses a suitable transport vehicle now? They have limitations and in the modern driving conditions could they cope?

There were plans to introduce a trolley bus in Leeds, but that scheme has evidently been abandoned.
 
Modern trolley buses can run a considerable distance "off line" so wouldn't cause this type of hold-up. They certainly don't need the infrastructure that has taken so many years to install around the city centre for the trams.
 
The second photo of trolley buses does not suggest a delay due to the buses as they would have been able pass once the one, that apparently skidded, was dewired. The photo does seem to suggest re-wiring and an attempt to get going again
 
Radiorails said:
The second photo of trolley buses does not suggest a delay due to the buses as they would have been able pass once the one, that apparently skidded, was dewired. The photo does seem to suggest re-wiring and an attempt to get going again
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Welcome back, trust you are well, thanks Viv your pictures worked a miracle
Bob
 
Just seen a couple of pictures on Facebook of Brum trolley buses, I notice that the bus stops are hexagonal, was this the norm. I remember riding on the Coventry Rd trolley buses but no memory of hexagon bus stops.
 
devonjim said:
Just seen a couple of pictures on Facebook of Brum trolley buses, I notice that the bus stops are hexagonal, was this the norm. I remember riding on the Coventry Rd trolley buses but no memory of hexagon bus stops.
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Yes, Trolleybus stops were hexagonal, tram stops were oblong and bus stops were round. Even Midland Red bus stops in the Birmingham area were round!


Trolleybus Stop, Coventry Rd (close up) .jpg
 
I have this old photo I look about 5 or 6 years old I was born in 1933 my sister is three years younger, I think it is in the Yardley Sheldon area but in the background is a TROLLY BUS!!
 

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